Featured Planting a new crop of plug-ins

Toyota was likely focused on improving costs and performance of HSD for wider implementation. It, and Ford's system, aren't optimized for a plug in application. Ford used a different final ratio to allow the higher EV speed in the Energis, but at the cost of efficiency. The PiP had the lowest speed and power threshold before ICE blend in. The Prime gets a one way clutch, which has been sold as a horrible thing among the Prius faithful for years, in order to improve EV side performance.

The Volt's system is designed for EV operation, but is likely pricier with the extra parts, and it sacrifices hybrid efficiency. The Malibu hybrid does away with one of the clutches, and gets better fuel economy on gasoline. We just don't know how well it would be as a PHEV.

Those are all power-split/ parallel-series hybrids. So is Honda's new two motor system from the Accord, but is heavier use on the series side of the spectrum. The Accord PHEV had lower hybrid efficiency and the EV range of the PiP, though. Which might simply be because of lack of corporate interest in a compliance car.

Hyundai, and perhaps the German cars made as PHEVs, use a parallel hybrid system. It may not look as sophisticated has what we see in HSD, but it may have an edge for implementing in a hybrid and a PHEV. The Prius traction motor has plenty of output for full EV operation; always had. It was needed to make the entire system work, and allows strong EV performance in the Prime with just adding a clutch. It meant a higher price tag on the hybrid system. A parallel hybrid can still be a full hybrid, with near the same results, like a power-split system, but do so with a smaller motor. There is a more traditional style transmission to manipulate that motor's output to allow that smaller motor.

Compare Hyundai's and Toyota's systems.Hyundai's traction motor is smaller, less power, than the HSD's. The HSG Hyundai replaces the starter and alternator with is also smaller than the M/G1. This means lower cost. The transaxle should be cheaper than a standard transmission, but Hyundai can spread some of the cost among their ICE models using the same or derivative transmission. The Hyundai hybrids might have a larger traction battery; more cost. The Ioniq is ditching the 12 volt battery, so there is some cost savings there.

For a PHEV, Hyundai just needs to install a more powerful traction motor along with the bigger battery. The cost increase going from hybrid PHEV will higher than in the HSD where the Prime gets a clutch, but it means the hybrid buyer isn't paying extra for PHEV components that their hybrid doesn't need; the larger M/G2 in HSD.

 

if they want to be the best, they better go back to the drawing board and figure out a way to stuff the measly 8 kilowatt battery into the chassis, without impeding the rear seat and hatch space. i can wait another year. otherwise, i might be joining bill wilson.

 

You're over thinking the problem ... says the new BMW i3-REx owner.

<SIGH>If I get to be like those Volt owners and IONIQ wanna-be owners, please:

I'd forgotten @bisco had a walk-on part at 0:05.

Bob Wilson

 

According to the author of the article;

REALLY?
hate to break it to this fellow - Toyota has already said plugs are only for those "WITH 4 HOURS TO WASTE" .... and of course, let's not forget my favorite gem;
"... no one's knocking on our (Toyota's) door to build a plug in"
Funny . . . . really? . . . there seems to be over 400,000 that were not only willing to "knock on their door" for a plug in ... the 400,000 were willing to show they meant it with the $1,000 deposit. Funny . . . it's hard for me to reconcile that anomaly.
400,000 . . . . isn't that about how many Camry's Toyota sells each year? Maybe no one's knocking on toyota's door for them to build the Camry either?


.

 

Looks like there is hope!
At least some/one in Toyota admits the mistakes made with the first Gen PiP and states electricity wil play a larger role.
Toyota Prius Chief Engineer Signals Shift Towards Battery Electric Vehicles

 

Translate those thoughts to body, engine, and software and I might take another peek. Just I had to decide in 2016 and wishful thinking does not get me where I want to be.

Today I drove nearly 100 miles and the electricity was nearly 'free.' I have no illusions that it will last but I don't care. Carpe diem.

Bob Wilson

 

I want a Prius with a 60 kWh battery. We can dream right?

 

We sure can, and the more Toyota sees people dreaming about plug ins, the sooner they will stop denying the demand

Bob, I ran out of patience long ago, you are a trooper!
It is possible I could come back to Toyota/Lexus, but unlikely, I've been spoiled by the direct sales model.

 

that would be a Lexus version - if it ever came to pass. Can you imagine? That would be like the LFA or the i8. Can't wait for the old toyota/Lexus stodgy leadership to finally kick the bucket so the company can get back on plugin main tracks -
.

 

i read today that porsche is going to make a tesla killa. the envy in the auto industry is striking.

 

toyoshima? really?

 

Considering the Germans have announced a date in the not so distant future when all cars sold must be electric ...

 

That really surprised and impressed me
True, 14 years off, but still.

 

the last 14 are a blur.

 

So yesterday, I picked up our i3 from 'the spa' and I saw one:

I burst out laughing and instantly regretted it because it might have hurt the feelings of the staff. The i8 is a cute, sports car and the channels in the after body . . . it still amuses me (*) but I also realize that a man of my age should not have a trophy wife, trophy car, or trophy <anything.> Still, the i8 is too much 'bling' for this old man.

So I drove to the dealer in the 2010 Prius with maps to our home and proposed that the shuttle driver take the i3 as I would not force anyone to have to drive the Prius. But he'd never driven the i3, ever. He quickly adopted to the built-in regen that feels like braking. So following him, I noticed the i3 does not light the brakes when in regen. Following our i3 to see if the brake lights come on is the car equivalent of climbing in the refrigerator to see if the light goes out.

On the way back, the shuttle driver did the driving and I played passenger ... again in the refrigerator. So I explained to him the economics of "4 cents per mile in the Prius, 2 cents per mile in the i3, and 1 cent per mile using the free chargers." Since he hadn't really had a test drive, I also let him do a maximum acceleration (I still think he held some back.) So he got 15-20 minutes of seat time and I got to play passenger and teacher.

Bob Wilson

* - At the dog park there are breeds whose ears stand upright but we've had and have some mixed whose ears flop over. The i8 channels remind me of the 1950s car 'fins' made into a floppy eared afterbody:


So maybe not the first:

 

Curious question for all. Are regen breaks created equal? Looking at you Tesla... Volt... Prius...

 

The i3 driver owner criticising the aesthetics of another car. Wow the irony.

 

It is a function of how much 'motive' power the electric motor can provide since it has to work as a generator during regeneration. It is just a question of direction.

Bob Wilson

 

No, all regen is not treated equal.
The amount of regen varies from car to car as does the behavior.
In the i3, for example, the regen will bring the car to a complete stop with the need for the brake pedal (which I really enjoyed).
The amount of power you can put back into the batteries is a function of the size and chemistry of the batteries. So, a 90D Tesla will have a much higher amount of power it can put back into the batteries than a car with a 12 kWh pack.

In some cars you can vary the strength of the regenerative braking via settings or shifter paddles.

Some cars put the regen on the brake pedal, some on the accelerator, and some put it on both.
Personally, I prefer all of it on the accelerator.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people think the Fisker Karma is the most beautiful car ever made. I think it is the most hideous car ever created.
I actually like the i3 for the most part.
I also like the artistic image of the i8. It makes a great poster, but I would never want to own one.