What is Toyota up to with the battery layout? We know there will be no back middle seat. Then why not keep the cargo deck flat like the 1st gen PiP and go "T" style battery and run the battery up to the center console? Should provide enough volume to keep the same battery capacity and yield better center of gravity. Oh, and Trollbait, don't say too much like Volt. The Prius has a really nice useable/spacious cargo area.
Well, it could be because Toyota developed the platform for the Prius, and simply didn't allow for a PHEV's battery. Now it it will cost more to make the necessary changes to the platform for the T-shape pack. They also didn't allow enough space in the rear tokeep the space loss down either. Or they didn't want to deal with GM over licensing. The Volt's arrangement is the EV1's, and is likely patented.
So Toyota was myopic and could only see as far as making an improved platform for the gen 4. When someone in the company mentioned they should probably make a 2nd gen phev they were probably shocked. "Oh no, we forgot!" and they had to stuff the battery where ever they could fit it. Luckily it didn't stick out the back or the hatch wouldn't have closed. That would have really affected sales.
It would be short-sighted to deliver a design unable to be sold profitably without the tax-credit. I see the effort to share a common platform as attempting to strike a balance to achieve high-volume sustainable sales. Think about the limited number of tax-credits remaining. Think about what happens in just a year or two when the plug-in boom hits. Think about what happens to those dependent upon the subsidy.
Not sure answer, but some thoughts on numbers: For my Gen2: Rectangle Under Tonneau Cover 28x13.5x41 = 9-ft3 For Prime reportedly the battery excludes 7ft3 of space according to one source. So if that 7-ft3 is true, could be up to about 10 inches in height lost in the back. I am comparing that to the no-spare Gen4 version with the lower floor.
Comments made, not by me, and maybe by the person that liked your post, that the Prime's hatch area didn't look polished and aftermarketish. Then a Toyota person said of the charger under the rear seats, that it could be moved. It seems the Prime unveiled might not be the finalized version. I believe Toyota didn't go with a T-shape pack because of GM patents, or that they didn't want to draw more parallels to the Volt, but I wanted to offer all the possibilities I could think of to the OP question on why they didn't. That said, if the final Prime for sale does lose 7 cubic feet of cargo space though, that would point to poor, or simply cost or time constrained, design for the Prime's battery placement. That is about as much space as the C-Max Energi loses for the battery. An older platform designed for an ICE, and converted to a hybrid and PHEV. Which presumably uses older battery technology, which is less energy dense, than what the Prime would use. The new Volt increased battery capacity while reducing the pack's weight and space requirements.
Could GM patent something as generic as a T-shaped battery? That would be a very broad concept, considering the constraints of an automobile's basic configuration. If that is the case, it would certainly limit competition. I too am disappointed in the amount of cargo space lost. I keep remembering that when Danny was driving the gen4 with a spokesman from Toyota, the rep made a comment that he wished he could say something about the Prime's new battery. The idea that I took from the comment was that the battery was something special. The prototype at the reveal didn't seem to have a battery that was in any way noteworthy. I don't remember anything except its capacity mentioned by Toyota. and they love to promote their engineering accomplishments I am waiting for the final version before I pass judgement on Toyota. If it turns out that battery is just an easy solution to the design constraints presented by the new platform, then I for one would be disappointed. I expect more from them and the market demands it.
i find it hard to believe that you can patent a battery shape. nevertheless, i think the bottom of the new platform was not designed in any way, and there were never any plans, to put the battery down low. it may be because of the shared platform which volt and tesla and others don't have to work around.
Toyota repeatedly stressed that the Prime revealed to us was only a prototype, that refinements would follow. Not sure how there could be any doubt. Patience. Things like price & chemistry/production improvements won't be revealed until shortly before rollout. Remember, praise when consumers can actually purchase the product is far more effective than long before.
Haven't heard or been able to find anything on a T-style battery patent. Hope not. Would be pretty egregious for the patent office to grant something like this, but strange things have been granted in the past. This would be on par with being able to patent the color of a car, where an engine or motor could be placed, how many seats a car has, etc. I'm cautiously optimistic that the production Prime cargo finishes will be more refined. If the prototype cargo area goes to production as seen, that would be quite unlike Toyota. Here's to hoping they clean things up the way they did from the Gen 1 prototype to the production PiP.
i missed that toyota stressed that the prime revealed was only a prototype, can anyone provide a link?
Maybe the Prime battery is "T" shape? but not the way we are thinking. There more space behind the wheel wells so it could be T-shaped to get behind the wheel wells, other wise there could be little storage cubbie holes back there. That would cut down on the 10-in maybe get it 6-8 inches.
Not sure what your 3-inch is bisco but I am guesstimating (from questionable data) height over the bottom floor in the no spare Gen4 config. 3-inch may be gap over level floor in the rear seats down.
Think Bisco is talking about height from a theoretical flat cargo deck. Danny/moderators estimated the pre-production car battery bulge height with their phones in the cargo area when they went to the reveal show.
Apple was able to patent the slide right to unlock a touch screen under US patent law. Patent issue aside, not doing something because the other guy already did it, isn't a farfetched condition. The Volt and new Cruze share a platform. Not using a different floor or belly pan for the Prime from the Prius is Toyota's choice. The reasons for doing could be good, but it is still theirs. There is a photo of the prototype sticker on a side window in one of the threads.
Honda spent the money on 1100 Fit EV with suspension upgrade and lifted the floor for the battery.... and Toyota cannot do similar for a 50 states car?
i think johns point is that toyota is trying to price the prime for a large audience, and any reconfigurations to the 'prototype' will be costly, and potentially send it back to nicheville.
[QUOTE="Trollbait, post: 2348611, member: 12239"The Volt's arrangement is the EV1's, and is likely patented.[/QUOTE] It is doubtful that any EV1 patent hasn't yet expired . Back then the duration was 17 years from issuing. Mike
Hmm? Not sure how that came about. My message was the opposite. It's a huge savings using a prototype reveal to flush out final design than to commit in advance. They can use it as a feedback opportunity. That's also good for figuring out promotion approach... Notice how pretty much everyone has focused on EV range for a commute? They've all overlooked something very important... EV for stop & slow traffic. I got stuck yesterday having to cross the cities during rush-hour, both directions. There were 2 slow downs, a major highway interchange and crossing the river. Each took 20 minutes. Having EV, including Heater & A/C, for that entire duration is what makes the major difference. No open-road driving. Think about how much gas was wasted by everyone else traveling just 5 MPH. Most of us haven't. We should. Feedback to that is a really big deal.
