Prime destined to be doa?

You said it was the only mid-sized hatchback in 2003. It wasn't. You said the 03 Prius was mid-sized. That's a stretch.
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That misses the point.

Again, it was about following the status quo. That isn't necessary to be successful.

 

I'm not sure but I got my Prius in 2004 when gas was $1.25. They couldn't keep Priuses on the lot then. Everybody thought I was crazy, then gas went crazy in the latter half of 2005. And no there were no other hatches at the time.

 

I don't know about Upstate New York, but So Cal Gas was pretty darn High.
AAA says average gas price hits record - Mar. 23, 2004
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Still had to get on a waiting list and it took about 6 months.


iPhone ?

 

I ordered my 2004 Salsa Red Model 7 in December 2003 and took delivery over Memorial Day weekend. I lucked out timing wise. My 45 mile commute into Cambridge, MA became much less expensive.

 

The first gen Prius was a compact, and a sedan.

There were plenty of hatchbacks and wagons in various forms in 2003 to 2004: Celica, Matrix/Vibe, Golf, Jetta wagon, Passat wagon, Focus hatchback/wagon, the Subarus, the luxury Europeans always had them, some Mitsubishis and Suzukis, and even a Deawoo. The Civic hatch might not have been axed yet, too.

The gen2 Prius was larger and a hatchback, with better fuel economy than the gen1(don't forget the higher numbers on the window sticker back then). It was more popular in California because of the higher prices and greater incentives, but there were federal ones before the tax credits.

Demand stripped supply for awhile. Some dealers quoted months for a 2005 to me, but the dealership I bought from got it in six weeks.

 

i must be thick ... as you're not helping me understand John's point about the prius hatchback breaking status quo & being virtually the only one

My memory was our five-seater was relatively roomy and a mileage champ. And now, the greater mileage champs are plug in .... only now, some are getting stingy with that 5th seat.
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Only compacts & economy-vehicles were hatchbacks here then. That contributed heavily to Prius standing out. Not only wasn't that a liability, it ended up being embraced by other automakers.

The midsize and larger were expected to have a trunk.

The "family" car now is expected to have a 5th seat.

Prime will attempt to change that expectation.

 

I think Prius became popular as "Green" discussion increased. People needed a way to feel good with respect to their impact on the environment, and at the same time advertise their higher minded perspective. Hollywood celebrities made them cool. Also, hybrids were new, and new things always get more attention.

Later, fuel prices played a larger role in Prius popularity.

 

The Mazda6 had a hatchback option back then, for what it's worth, in addition to the sedan and wagon bodystyles.

Mind you, nobody bought the Mazda6 hatch in the US, but it was a thing. (If you see a first-gen Mazda6 "sedan" with a rear wiper, it's actually a hatch.)

 

The Matrix might be counted as an economy car, but it has more interior space than the gen2 Prius. The Mazda6 had a hatchback and wagon when introduced in 2002, and the German makes kept up with them also.

If the Prius had had a more typical squared off bend end like hatch backs of the day, it would not have stood out on the road. The versatility of the hatch made up for the car's smaller size compared to a Camry of equal price.

Still are in the US. Most wanting something more versatile than a trunk opt for something truckier. Low sales of the Crosstour and Venza got them cancelled. The gen4 Prius even sports a pseudo trunk lid now.

As long as a family can be more than 4 people, people will want more than 4 seats in their family car.

I think you have missed Toyota's claims that the four seats in the Mirai and Prime are to take the cars more 'upscale', 'luxorious', and 'distinctive', not about them being the next family car.

 

No, I heard & understood the rest of what was said. You can't just refer to part of it.

When a family grows up (no more car-seats or juice-boxes), that's what they'll purchase.

Why not transport the kids to soccer practice in a nicer vehicle?

 

So they are targeting 92% of households that have 2 or fewer children (according to the last census).


Unsupervised!

 

and many noobies have come aboard as well.

 

no offense, but you sound like the gentleman in the 'why i won't buy a tesla' thread.

 

At the end of the day, Toyota is a business like all other auto manufacturers. Fan boys of all sorts like to describe how their favorite brand is a hero. It’s not entirely fiction on their part as some manufacturers have lead the charge in some crucial areas.

Toyota is probably not too worried about the PriusChat demographic. A cool bunch, no doubt . That demographic is looking for the latest, high-tech eco-toys, and they also have substantially more disposable income. That’s why they bought the Prius first when there was little to no competition.

It’s not surprising to see many of this cohort move on to the next greatest tech in today's different world where there are many more choices. Yet, no one is turning a substantial profit with the newest PHEV/BEVs. At the high end, there is a lot of profit potential and Tesla has jumped on this. Potential is the key word, as even they have yet to run a positive corporate balance sheet. Legacy costs burden most other manufacturers, though many regret not capturing the minds and wallets of the high end market.

Count me as one of the many disappointed that Toyota didn’t push hard into the PHEV/BEV game to this point. But from a business standpoint, Toyota already has long done and maintains deep research into all of the components of PHEV/BEV systems.

When battery pack costs become more favorable, it will take little for Toyota to be in this game full swing. My personal suspicion is that they are currently sitting this out for business ($$$) reasons, ostensibly denying the importance of PHEVs/BEVs, but would not be surprised if one day they just say, just kidding, here you go, here is our affordable 200-300 mile BEV.

 

It will be successful, but not for the reason you presume. For that matter, it won't be who you presume either.

Plug-In shoppers are not the focus of Prime. True, the configuration will be appealing, but they aren't who it was designed for. Those shoppers will carefully weigh a variety of traits & specs of the vehicle, researching in great detail and calculating performance expectations. Since they are determined to purchase a plug-in vehicle one way or another, they are far more willing to accept greater expense & tradeoff. That's an elite group. In no way do they represent the majority.

Ordinary consumers don't participate in online discussions, download resource material, or even read automotive publications. They go to the dealer and look around. They succumb to the "endearment effect" from the salesperson convincing them to touch & drive, often resulting in an impulse purchase.

That's the way mainstream buyers do business. No matter how much an enthusiast praises a vehicle, it means nothing loyal customer simply shopping the showroom floor. Salespeople want a quick sale, without having to answer many questions or convince...

For example, the ability for Prime to completely recharge in 5.5 hours using just an ordinary 120-volt household outlet is easy to understand & embrace. Think about how much of a challenge the sale will be for Volt in comparison. It takes 13 hours. If you have to leave for work at 7:30 in the morning, charging must start at 6:30 the evening before. If you have any night life whatsoever, you're screwed. Explaining to the customer what it takes and how much it will cost to get a level-2 charger won't be simple.

That lack of intimidation is quite powerful. It's enough to get the customer walking around at the dealer to take a closer look. That's where those 'upscale', 'luxurious', and 'distinctive' features come in. No amount of enthusiast scoff at the supposed limited range will change that. In fact, those customers won't even be aware of any of that rhetoric. The salesperson will offer a test-drive opportunity. They'll take a spin around the block in EV, then ask where to sign. Quick sale achieved.

Put another way, Toyota's target audience for Prime is not plug-in shoppers.

 

I’m with you on this one. Suspect many or most ultimate purchasers will be more of the mainstream type going in to check out the Liftback and leaving with a Prime.

Hopefully Toyota does a good job educating their dealers about the Prime (tech, costs, fed/state credits/rebates, etc.).

 

prime has no shot at being successful. but it depends on how you define success. it might be a player in the phev market, but will never capture the average consumer.
nothing about this car will capture the imagination of the average car shopper or salesperson. unless they can make more commission on it. it is a me too product, and if you consider it 'upscale', then maybe it will sell like a caddy plug in.
if you tell the average shopper looking at gassers that prime can charge in 5.5 hours, their eyes will glaze over.
before plug ins become 'successful', the next gen prime will already be old.