Prime destined to be doa?

Hey Now !! Are you trying to get me over amped?

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a toyota exec, 'admits that a middle seat could easily be retrofitted in the future'. what? what happened to the charger, the extra structural weight, the lost mpg, the blah, blah, blah, blah blah? these guys talk out of both sides of their collective mouths.

 

I can imagine they could put in a 5th seat after the batteries get more power dense and smaller, power electronics get smaller and more efficient, using more carbon fiber, blah, blah, blah.......

 

i'll be too old to drive by then.

check out the last paragraph! 'the prius prime will slot in above the non plug in prius, and costing less than the version it replaces.' so the base should come in around 29k, less 4k fed = 25k, less 2.5k state of mass = 22.5k. not too shabby! forget everything i said about 4 seats and loss of cargo space, where do i sign up?

 

I thought you did already?

I think the ATP will still be an add-on package for the Prime 4. They should make it an option for the Prime 3 as well.
I wonder if "the possibility of a yet-to-be named version" means AWD?

That would be the killer differentiator over all the other PHEVs in its price range.

Hmmm, now it makes sense. @Prius Team if you are reading this, screw the fifth seat. I want AWD!

 

Limited, like serving all local driving needs?

 

There maybe a lot of competition, but do they all have the reliability of a Toyota? I think some of you are forgetting the loyal following Toyota has! They sell themselves and that really is what matters.

 

exactly. depending on how far is 'local', and how many miles a particular model will go under certain conditions. limited.

 

Many have already left a Prius for one of the other brands, because they wanted a plug in, and Toyota didn't deliver. This includes at least two prominent Priuschatters. Those waiting for a Prius PHEV to finally come to their state might still wait for a Prime, but what was unveiled might get them to try a Ford or Hyundai PHEV instead.

 

To my knowledge, Toyota was never a big supporter of Plug_ins. It took Toyota forever to give us the dad blamed PiP, and when we finally got it is barely qualified for USA tax credits (small batt). So many USA EV advocates are upset with Toyota's strategy on plug-ins, but that is different from "not delivering". Toyota has been essentially crystal clear that they feel EV w/ big batts is not the way.

Toyota is famously pursuing Fuel Cell as their priority, which I might add is consistent with CA and many autos and USA tried to spur FCEV. If you want to say, EV has now been declared the politically correct choice and Toyota has a bad attitude, OK but that is spin from an EV advocacy view. I personally think FCEV is very interesting and see value in that.

I loved the PiP1 especially in hindsight that was Toyota's honest view of the best plug-in. Now we got Prime as the next shot. I suspect Toyota needs some Plug_ins to meet CA mandates, so we will continue to get plug-ins from Toyota due to state mandates, no more no less, unless is becomes a profit area.

 

Cost has always been the issue.

They invest in high-volume profitable projects and long-term research.

Some people just plain don't like that. It's understandable, but annoying how they spin & deny those investments.

 

Yep - & some here are too young to remember how marginal both Toyota & Honda quality was, some 4 & 5 decades ago, as they strained to gain a toe-hold in the USA. As their quality improved, then matched, and then eventuality passed the big 3, the only thing that the big 3 did - to respond, was to mock their opponents. People wanted quality, not commercials about flag waiving & "the heartland of America".
Now that we're in a new century - & well into the 20 teen's ... we find the likes of South Korea's Hyundai - ALREADY offering a plugin, smoking the competition's warranties - & Hyundai's quality is coming along WAY faster than either Honda or Toyota ever did, way back when they struggled to gain market share in the US.
It's not enough to stand on past laurels ... poo poo the competition with "bah - they're nothing junk" ...
Only the simple minded person or company fail to learn from history.
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I wasn't commenting on why Toyota didn't deliver. Just pointing out that the Prime will be successful because of brand loyality is not something to count on with it comes to plug in shoppers.

I don't see how my comment can construed as spin either way. The core was that people wanting a plug in have already left Toyota to get it. I see value in FCEVs, specially with plug added, but I see no value in hydrogen as a fuel for a car.

 

OK TB I was responding to several posts I think it was the post from UK person started the idea of Toyota not listening to owners, but listening to owners has a couple flavors: (1) supportive owners suggesting tweaks to improve already good products, and/or (2) less supportive owners asking for policy change at the highest levels of the company. The latter is harder obviously.

 

Plug-In shoppers aren't the target market of Prime. That stage is over. Those early adopters have made their purchases already.

The chapter in history just starting is the reach out to mainstream consumers.

That's why Prime is configured differently, not following the gen-1 approach.

 

Targeting mainstream buyers with a less-mainstream configuration (four seat), however, seems rather misguided, even if it will work fine for many. (I don't actually care that much about the number of seats, seeing as my daily is a Miata, but I do think that a true 5-seater would do better in the market than either a true 4-seater or a 2+2+1. I'm not sure how a true 4-seater will do versus a 2+2+1, though - child seats can go in the +1 position on the Volt, after all.)

 

Prius taught us that following the status quo can be misguided.

It was literally the only midsize hatchback available back in 2003. Look at how many followed suit as a result of not following traditional expectations.

 

that was the era of the SUV. So of course there were literally no hatchbacks then. But iirc, there was the mazda6 which was midsided - the 03 prius? It would be a stretch to call it mid-sized. Closer to the truth is that Prius popularity came about with the advent of $3 gas - which seemed outrageous back then.
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What does that have to do with other hatchbacks ?