How to fix the prime!

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by inferno, Mar 30, 2016.

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  1. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    I'm an engineer but not mechanical nor car (there goes my credibility) .

    But here's how Toyota can fix two major problems.

    1. Decrease battery space and increase density, ultimately allowing more usable battery vs whatever percent it is now. I think we've learned enough to increase usable. In fact the prius + has a higher usable kwh ratio.
    2. Decrease gas tank size and therefore weight and weight of fuel.

    The above could still yield 22 miles ev while making the trunk stay flat with the seats when down. Then with less weight there can also be a middle seat without issues. I doubt there will be people complaining of a smaller rank. Make it the same as the current pip 10 gallons

    Game. Set. Match. Buy.
     
    #1 inferno, Mar 30, 2016
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  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I am thinking we want NextGen v wagon to have mild plug-in version. PiPv
     
    #2 wjtracy, Mar 30, 2016
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  3. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    1. If this was possible and economical, Toyota would have done it. Ask yourself why they didn't.

    2. You can do this yourself, quit pumping at 3/4 full.
     
    #3 JimboPalmer, Mar 30, 2016
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm more concerned with loss of hatch space. if they can fix the seat, they can fix that too. are you listening toyota?(y)
     
    #4 bisco, Mar 30, 2016
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yeah, we are in a focus group. But we are not signing any NDA 'cause we can't hold it in.
     
    #5 wjtracy, Mar 30, 2016
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    especially mendel. whatever is rattling around, eventually comes out.:p
     
    #6 bisco, Mar 30, 2016
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  7. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    I don't think the statement is entirely correct.

    Think about PiP Gen 1, a lot had changed under the hood. We still have hope because what was shown was a prototype model...

    I am curious why they kept the fuel tank size the same whereas the PiP Gen 1 was indeed shrunk (don't know about the prototype version though).
     
    #7 inferno, Mar 30, 2016
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    me too. how many cubic inches could they pick up with a 10 gallon hat?
     
    #8 bisco, Mar 30, 2016
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    My guess is that there's enough talk here about range. People seem to want to visit the gas station as little as possible so the larger fuel tank allows that. (Japan gets a slightly smaller fuel tank at 40 litres/10.5 gal vs. our 43 litre/11.3 gal in the US spec Prime).

    Toyota does monitor PriusChat closely so I'm sure if there's enough people that said "ok, we want more range but now total range is more than plenty. We're willing to sacrifice something for a 5th seat or increased cargo room".

    If the battery density increases, would you want greater AER or increased cargo space?

    If the Prime has a lower total range than the Prius Liftback because of the smaller fuel tank, are you ok with that?

    Keep in mind that Toyota's end goal is still to produce the most fuel efficient vehicle and the Prime is the representation of that. Toyota probably would rather not release a 40mpg Prius to get a 50 mile AER.
     
    #9 Tideland Prius, Mar 31, 2016
  10. SUPERCOOLMAN

    SUPERCOOLMAN Junior Member

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    may be toyota should just design prime like those robots in EVA...

    I was going to wait for prime, but outlook of the price made me not wanting to wait for it.
    losing 5th seat is ok, but loss of rear wiper and the indented trunk made it not worth the while
     
    #10 SUPERCOOLMAN, Mar 31, 2016
  11. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Watched a good documentary called "A Faster Horse" about the Ford Mustang and the building of the Next Generation Ford Mustang. Well it was interesting to me. Lots of automotive history, present day, and a real good insiders look to the whole very lengthy process that goes into having a vehicle go from concept to showroom floor.

    One thing I took from the documentary was the inter-connectivity of everything. I think as consumers, we tend to imagine that a new model is mostly just cosmetic change. But the truth is, a truly new vehicle is nearly countless design decisions, nearly countless vendors providing parts and a massive collective synergy to make it all fit together and work.

    I'm NOT saying Toyota couldn't fix the 4 seat to 5 seat issue and/or improve the hatch space and load floor BUT...if the vehicle is anywhere near production, it might not be as easy as we'd like to think. I'd expect that change more as "Evolution" than I would immediate "Revolution".

    Basically the whole vehicle has been designed...to be the vehicle it is. You start changing things even as outwardly seemingly as simple as providing seating for 5 and/or changing the gasoline tank size, and it becomes like playing Jenga.
     
    #11 The Electric Me, Mar 31, 2016
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  12. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    At one point yes... Don't want to visit the gas station often. However, for one sought downfall that may not be important (gas range) to potentially solve more trunk space and 5th seat problem seems reasonable. And if they allow more usable battery which gm did it would be awesome...

    Prius can be an efficient car battery and gas and maybe solar. Hopefully Toyota can make the prius it's own car and not a wannabe of gm or tesla.

    Right now they seem to want to be.

    But..
    1. Mpge kwh per mile or whatever can set them apart
    2. Hv mpg can set them a part
    3. Potentially having solar panels will set them apart as well... How many miles does regen breaking give u back? Now imagine solar miles, then effectively a 25 ev range batter may be 27 or 29 and a smaller pack overall (unless driving at night)
     
    #12 inferno, Mar 31, 2016
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    everyone wants something different. that's the frailty of phev, erev and bev.

    i'm interested to see sales outside of cali, or total if hov stickers are not given.
     
    #13 bisco, Mar 31, 2016
  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I am in exactly the same predicament...
     
    #14 wjtracy, Mar 31, 2016
  15. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    I would rather sacrifice some gasoline range, if it meant gaining some EV range. 22 miles is sort of mediocre for PHEV range. Another 8 miles (or 2 KWH) would put it around 30, which would make a significant difference.
     
    #15 adric22, Mar 31, 2016
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what we need is cars that come in 5 or 10 mile battery increments.:cool:
     
    #16 bisco, Mar 31, 2016
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Maybe akin to the steady increase in iPhone size? With the 6 they're getting unwieldy, there's a function to shrink the screen size, to facilitate one-handed texting, and how to carry this mini-iPad. And now, they're coming out with a smaller phone, maybe seeing an overshoot?

    I'd be happy with 10 miles, even less, more than enough for a milk run. IF they did some engineering, got a spare in there.
     
    #17 Mendel Leisk, Mar 31, 2016
  18. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    #18 drash, Mar 31, 2016
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the hatch is 6" longer?
     
    #19 bisco, Mar 31, 2016
  20. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    165mm according to the post sergiospl posted.


    iPhone ?
     
    #20 drash, Mar 31, 2016
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