What I don't like about the Prius Prime

Those are good numbers considering the customer base I was discussing earlier. Regardless of drivability, it seems to me a big problem with Ford hybrids is compromised trunk space, so choosing the hybrid has very specific practical negatives.

What specs? If you're implying that BEVs lose significant range, performance, drivability, etc., within 3 years, then no, you are mistaken. I've been driving mine for four years and lost maybe 5% range. Since the car would still be useful to me with a 40% range loss and range declines more quickly when the battery's brand new, I figure I'm fine.

Of course, it wouldn't matter if I weren't fine, since I can't sell the car for anywhere near an acceptable price, which brings me to point #2. Resale values aren't failing to hold up because the cars "specs don't hold up" - they're failing because there's currently not much of a market for BEVs. Markets that thin can show wild price swings, and at this point it's very easy for people on the fence to just buy something else. I think the fact that people are leery of buying used cars with $5-10k+ battery packs that can be affected by abusive driving practices, especially ones coming off leases, just adds to that problem, and of course Nissan's mishandling of the Arizona LEAF stories didn't help one bit. But the big driver is flat out lack of demand.

 

The funny thing is, my used PiP 2012 isn't showing any signs of degradation yet. Warmer weather (40-50s now) is heading in and my estimated EV reading is back up to 11.6. My highest is 12.9 which I suspect will come back in the summer.

I drive the thing like a Gen 4, manually cutting off the engine on downhill or least-power-needed roads when I'm driving 11+ miles.

 

I should hope not. With an ICE on board, Toyota can afford to be and is VERY conservative with its battery management, even in the PiP. Chevy's actually much the same on the Volt, keeping its traction battery in the sweet spot by never fully charging or discharging. BEVs of necessity beat their packs much harder, leaving it up to the customer to exercise a little restraint in how long they leave the battery sitting around in the heat with a full charge or how low they'll let it get. It's one thing to force you to run the ICE when the battery's out of its optimal operating conditions - it's quite another to shut down and leave you on the side of the road. Since that's not a threat with a PHEV, the PiP and Volt sacrifice EV range to maximize battery longevity.

This whole discussion reminds me of a very minor sore point. With the previous line extensions of the c and the v, and now giving the Plug-In the new Prime name, why wasn't the Liftback given a proper name/suffix? I'm just going to call it the Liftback now because that's the lame moniker Toyota now seems to be using, but why wasn't the Gen4 launched as, e.g., the Prius h? Calling it just "Prius" diminishes both the Liftback (leaving it with a generic non-name) and the other models (yeah, it's a Prius, but with a qualifier). If Prius really is now a sub-brand with multiple models, I would have thought the launch of the radically new Gen4 would have been a good opportunity to fill this gap.

 

without accurate measuring, it's difficult to tell in everyday driving. i think i've lost 10%, but can't be positive.

 

When it was reported Toyota had trademarked Prime, I was guessing that was going to be the Prius Prius new name.

 

Maybe that's the answer - we'll just call it the Prius Prius.

Or that. But Prius Sub-Prime - that's probably a no-go.

 

prius envy.

 

Darn, I thought prius maximus would catch on someday. I mean, Prius is Latin, right? Maximus is too, but Prime sure isn't. Maybe Prius Primus?

 

mad max prius.

 

Prius Car
So we will be ready when the truck version arrives.
We can also call the Prime the NSX instead.

 

The new Prius Wagon is called Prius Optimus with 3 rows of seats.

Prius C will now be called Prius Bee

 

how about making that Prius XP or SP? maybe Prius X, Prius Me or OPrius

 

Iconic was used in reference to the Prius.
So, Prius Eye.
Works well with Prius goggles.

 

all the features on the car. It's a moving target

Tesla will improve the pack size by 5% to 10% per year, Chevy will bring out the Bolt, Nissan will respond with a 60 kWh pack at some point. The higher capacity packs of newer EVs make the old EVs lose value even without degradation.

Then add in features like autonomous driving (further out), autopilot (already here for some brands), and other new features and buying a new PHEV or BEV with lesser features will face heavy depreciation.

Straight up you can't beat the reliability record of the Prius. Absolutely the lowest TCO and cost per mile of any car with a gas engine (and beats the diesels). I'm just saying the market will move on and low kWh hybrids won't hold value when they are upstaged by higher kWh cars.

 

Just a thought that keeps rattling around in my head: this car has the PIP issues plus the love/hate fourth gen issues.

 

It doesn't have all the love/hate issues of the gen 4. The body styling is enough different that it pleases some who dislike the gen4 and displeases others who like the gen4. So, it brings new complexity to an already complicated subject. If only it were simply a matter of transportation.

I like the gen4's looks but to me (at least going by the photos) the Prime is better looking.

 

I'd drive a Hummer or the IT mobile from southpark if it was more reliable than a Prius and cost me .00001 cents per mile to operate.

In other words you can make it ugly and I'd still drive it so long as it gets the job done reliably, cheaply, safely, everything but looking nice.

OK not the thing from southpark but anything that is believable but ugly.

 

sounds more like buzzing...

 

I assume you're talking about PLUG-IN hybrids (or BEVs), but yes, that is a problem early adopters have to live with - fair point. I misunderstood your original comment completely. At this stage at least, plug-ins are only a decent value if you plan to drive 'em into the ground. The only workaround so far has been leasing, but as the lessors are taking it in the neck on the residuals, I wonder how much longer that's going to be the case.

I don't want to beat on the Prime too much, but I really think the big concern is rooted in a lot of signals that suggest the Prime is going to be pricier than a Volt - and that comparison does not make a pretty picture. If Toyota surprises us and offers the Prime at a modest premium above a comparably configured Liftback, a lot of opinions will change - but for a number of reasons I really don't expect that.

 

I've waited for others to make a comment. Inasmuch as no-one has, I'll make one ..... If the Prime is more costly than the Volt, I predict low sales, and a speedy withdrawal from the market.

That said, I find little to not like about the photographic images I've seen of the Prime.