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Seeking upgrade advice, specific situation...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by DelOrso, Mar 17, 2016.

  1. DelOrso

    DelOrso Junior Member

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    Hi all,

    Lurked here for a while but have never posted, since usually I can find my answer in a thread. But now I have a somewhat specific issue, and haven't been able to find anything in these pages that speak exactly to it.

    I have an '05 with an aftermarket head - a Kenwood x399 to be exact, since the factory unit only had a cd changer; no Aux input, bluetooth, etc, and I can still control it using the steering wheel controls. The original JBL speakers remain, and there is no subwoofer or upgraded amplifier.

    The problem is, the sound isn't that good. The radio an cd player sound just ok, kind of muddy bass and not very clear mids or highs, and this only gets worse at higher (and not even very high) volumes. It's MUCH worse when I connect my iPod, and it's not an issue of MP3 quality. Both uncompressed FLAC files, as well as lower bit rate files sound, well, bad. The bass distorts even at low volumes, and everything else sounds tinny. I've made exhaustive EQ adjustments, and gotten nowhere.

    I understand It's just a car system, but I've had much older, worse cars that sound a lot better than this. What I'm unsure about is what is the weak link in the chain. Is a subwoofer the way to go, to take some of the pressure off the other speakers? Should I invest in a more powerful amp? Are the speakers garbage? It seems there's a lot of differing opinions on jbl's on this forum.

    I'm in no way trying to find some insanely loud, door-rattling system. I'm just looking for better audio quality without breaking the bank, so I'm hoping some incremental changes might solve the problem. Any advice any of you have would be greatly appreciated, and if I've left some critical information out, please let me know.

    Thanks so much!
     
  2. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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    If you haven't already seen it, there's a good writeup about the JBL soundsystem. You can find it by googling "Tom Morrow Prius JBL Audio" (sorry I can't yet post links due to being new on the forum).

    Can you confirm If your Prius came with the JBL speaker upgrade? If so, there are 9 separate woofer and tweeters in the car (you can most easily tell by identifying a middle speaker on top on the center dash screen - if it's there you have the JBL system, if not, you have the standard stock speakers). If your Prius didn't come with the JBL speaker upgrade then there are only 6 speakers - separate tweeters and woofers in the front, and single full-ranges in the rear.

    Aftermarket head units aren't really compatible with the JBL speakers, as the JBL speakers have separated woofer and tweeter connections that normally use a digital crossover in the amplifier to send the highs to the tweeters and lows and mid-range to the woofers.
     
  3. DelOrso

    DelOrso Junior Member

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    Yeah, it's the JBL 9 speaker system. That Tom Morrow write-up is fantastic! Thanks for the tip. Off his recommendations, I'm thinking what I'll likely do is replace the front components with better quality woofers and tweeters, and drive them off the rear outputs of the amp. What I don't totally understand is when he recommends, if you want to still have rear speakers (which I do), replacing them with the old front ones and re-wiring accordingly. Perhaps I'll discover this, but why not just keep the rear woofer/tweeters in, and re-wire them to run off the front outputs of the amp? In any event, it seems like this is probably the easiest way forward, as adding a small sub may have limited benefit (I think?) and adding an upgraded amp may be more complicated than is desirable...especially without also replacing those JBL speakers. I know it's been said to death by now, but it's still baffling to me how a "premium" audio system with NINE speakers can sound so mediocre...
    Either way, thanks again!
     
  4. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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    If I had the JBL speakers and installed an aftermarket head-unit, I would replace the front woofers and tweeters with a component set wired directly to the headunit (not the JBL amplifier which heavily colors the audio). I would replace the rear speakers as well (again wired directly to the head-unit. In the rear I would use cheaper full range speakers (I don't care about the audio in the rear as 99% of the time it's just me or one passenger, and the rears just provide a bit of "filler" when listening from the front). Then I would disconnect and remove the middle speaker, tweeters in the rear, and JBL amp. After that, the next upgrade would be to add a subwoofer. Good luck on your system!
     
  5. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    the problem with all this rewiring is that you'd have to just about gut the car to do it, and spend $1000+ to make it worth the effort. if you don't have the jbl its easy peasy.

    wiring the rear speakers to the front outputs is a pain because the front tweeters are wired separate from the front woofers, so the crossover is in the jbl amp. but the rears aren't separate. I'd like to ditch the jbl myself, but I'm not gutting my car over it.

    and, is there anything in the jbl system that needs to be hooked up for the nav, reverse cam, etc. to function properly?
     
  6. DelOrso

    DelOrso Junior Member

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    Yeah, all that rewiring (to the head unit) does seem beyond what I'd feel comfortable doing myself. I've installed speakers, and a head unit once, but never any compacted rewiring. And paying someone to do all that doesn't sound appealing either.

    I don't have a reverse-cam (unfortunately), and never use the 2005-era navigation, as my phone does a better job of that, so maybe just replacing the amp, upgrading the speakers and figuring out how to hook them all up with the existing wiring is the best bet?
     
  7. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    unfortunately, the amp and head unit work as a pair; if you replace the amp, you must replace the head unit and re-wire it all. upgrading the speakers might not work too well either because the JBL amp is designed to use 2 and 3 ohm speakers. you can find 2 ohm woofers, but 3 ohm? what fu©ʞ!ŋƓ idiot thought that was a good idea? I hope he gets hit by a bus before he has a chance to breed.
     
  8. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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    I honestly don't think it would be too bad. I would connect into the existing speaker wires underneath the passenger seat. I'd run 4 pairs of wires from underneath the passenger seat to the right cable "tray" underneath the plastic piece under the bottom of the passenger front door. Then run these wires up to the dash and across to the head unit. If you've taken apart the dash to install an aftermarket head unit, then this shouldn't be too difficult (not more difficult than say adding a subwoofer in the trunk and wiring to it).

    Those 4 pairs would connect to the wires that are already wired to the front, rear, left and right woofers. Then you just pop in aftermarket speakers where the woofers were. Of if you'd like, install a component system in the front, using the passive crossover connected into the wires to the woofer wired previously (you would have to run an additional wire for the tweeter, but this would be in the door and wouldn't be too difficult).

    In this way you could re-use most of the existing wires, and wouldn't need to do any fancy wiring into the doors.

    Also, the reason that that 2 ohm speakers were used is to get more power from the amplifier without having to build an additional power supply into the amplifier. From 13.8 volts you can only get 20-25W rms delivered into 4 ohms after amplifier voltage losses. However if you make the speakers 2 ohms, you can drive 45-50W rms. To get above this amount of power delivered, an additional power supply stepping up the voltage to 24V and beyond is used on aftermarket power supplies. Sucks for aftermarket installs, I know (but I understand the reasoning as an electrical engineer).

    See this thread if needed. Some guys did like I was suggesting:

    JBL Amplifier | PriusChat
     
    #8 Kevin_Denver, Mar 25, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  9. DelOrso

    DelOrso Junior Member

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    The head unit has actually already been replaced. It was like that when I got the car, but it seems like a decent enough one, and has all the things I would need (Aux in, bluetooth, etc). I think I'll just bite the bullet and get a new amp and speakers. Not ideal, but seems like the easiest solution at this point.
     
  10. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    when I upgraded the speakers in my '04, I went to parts express. the drivers they sell aren't name brands that you'd see in a store or catalog, but companies like visaton and Dayton audio make drivers for name brand home audio manufacturers. the woofers I chose were the largest ones that would fit that I could find, and they sounded great. my brother is an audiophile, and he made his own home speakers using parts express drivers. they sounded as good as high end speakers.
    I did use alpine tweeters in my front doors because they clip right in with no mods to the triangle, and they sounded excellent. very crisp and clear but not harsh. I like to hear the tick of a drum stick on a cymbal, not the typical slushy sound you hear from most car speakers.
     
  11. DelOrso

    DelOrso Junior Member

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    Cool, thanks for that tip! I'll check that out.