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I OTOH want the engine to fire if it is going to be more efficient to save those precious KWh.

 

That isn't what most buyers of phevs say. They want to use all their electricity and the least gas. If its a longer trip they want the option of a button, not a engine that will simply fire up going on the freeway. I am sure the prius prime does better here from user feedback, than the first gen prius phv.

 

agreed. i think john 1701 is in serge's camp. but as usbseawolf put it quite awhile ago, at todays gas prices, most of us are being inefficient by plugging in at all. i do like driving ev though. and i'm not sure of pollution consequences, but i do think less gas burned equals less middle eastern problems.

 

Well, with the Prime, you definitely can floor it, and take off faster then in hybrid mode, without firing up the ICE:



This graphic taken from the Toyota Japan site, shows time in the base and acceleration on the left. During the first seconds, in EV (red) the Prime accelerates quite a bit faster then in HV (blue). It should do a real quick 0-60 mph.

Of course, this applies only after having selected EV driving and as long as the HV-batterie pack is charged enough to allow driving in EV-mode. After that, the Prime becomes a 4th gen Prius, said to be keeping its 52 mpg consumption rate, and running much like a 1st gen Prius Plug-in.

Bisco said:

Is that not a good reason to plugging in as often as possible?

Why is this?

The one-way clutch in the new PHEV hybrid system ends up blocking the ICE, preventing it from turning backwards and firing up. This bundles the power output of the motor and generator. Together, they provide 53 (MG2) + 23 (MG1) = 76 kW (102 HP), which is largely sufficient for the battery power output of max 68 kW (91 HP)! For comparison, a Leaf disposes of 80 kW (107 HP).



If you want to reach 22 miles EV-range or more, it is better not to floor, but you'll still get a nice acceleration. The same holds for driving uphill. Driving downhill subsequently, will reload in part your battery.

I think most readers here knew that, but I repeat it just in case.

Jan

Ackowledgment: much of the information cited here can be found in a clear and accurate article written by Hortevin on Hybrid Life.

 

Wayne Gerdes said in this video at 8:50 min what John 1701a talked about plug in hybrids and people who want them to be EVs: #NYIAS - 2017 Toyota Prius Prime PHEV 22 Overview

PHVs are rated all electric from 0 - maximum ev range because of ICE firing, except Chevy Volt. Compare Side-by-Side

 

I doubt that. I'm guessing with "only" 68 kW that the Prime will be accelerating relatively sedately as it approaches 90 mph and it's top electric-only speed is limited to 84 mph.

The leaf is not really heavier. There are 3 trims. The cheapest is lighter at 3256 pounds than the Prime's nominal 1510 kg (3329 pounds), the middle trim of the LEAF is heavier by 13 pounds, and the third trim with the 30 kWh pack at 3391 is about 62 pounds heavier than the Prime.

 

Correct, I already had corrected it.

The Prime will never be a sports car, but acceleration in EV will be MUCH better then the 1st Gen

Jan

 

I think he was issuing an opinion which he clearly said was at odds with the majority opinion.

Nope no quote of john? Do they even know each other?
We have tens of thousands of surveys saying people want phevs to keep the engine off most of the them if there is available battery, but want a button to choose engine on. Then we have a great hypermiler saying he disagrees.

If you are trying to sell the cars I would listen to the tens of thousands of phev customers not an individual reviewer. Note plug-ins reduce the need for hypermiling ;-).

 

one of the problems of ev in its infancy, is that efficiency is not a big consideration. the buying public simply wants to know how far will it go.

 

Perhaps the idea that efficiency trumps gas usage is the misconception. As plug-ins mature gallons per year will be a much better metric than mpg after the battery runs low.

There is a trade off of acceleration and mpg versus battery size, but the bigger one is can the battery fit. In the prius prime it appears that the suspension couldn't hold the bigger battery and a 5th seat, something I expect rectified in the next generation, or better range.

It appears that mpge charge deplete, mpg charge sustain, price after tax credits, gallons per year, and price after credits all improved.

What are people looking backwards towards a smaller battery and less electric acceleration and range?

 

doubtful. but i think if there was a fifth seat and flat deck, there wouldn't be a single complaint. but eventually, as we swing to more ev, i would like to see kWh per mile, or some such.

 

Yes. We go way back. In fact, it was during a heated exchange with me that the term "hypermile" was first coined.

 

you had a heated exchange with someone?

 

What Jeff Cobb says about gas engine coming on at 3:30 min in this video: 2016 Hyundai Sonata Plug-in Hybrid Review – HybridCars.com Review