Featured 2G Prius Plug-in Reveal - March 23 @ 9:10 am EDT - Live Stream here

Oops!

 

Yet.. Japanese version will have extra weight in the form of solar panels... Ok maybe it's only 50 lbs more versus 250..

 

IIRC, the Prius - even if only a standard Gen III, would out perform mpg against the gen 1 Volt, if driven somewhere over 50ish miles. Anybody taken the time to see how those numbers work for Volt II versus PiPP? Someone might as well start crunching numbers.
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The statement was that the “Prius Prime uses less gasoline fuel for 50%+ of commuters compared to other PHEVs.”

The USDOT data was a population survey, so the 50%+ categorically applies to the EV range. In terms of my statement it is true that a few small assumptions have to be made (see below).

Perhaps the confusion is that this does not necessarily mean that those who will ultimately buy a PHEV have very similar commuting ranges as the USDOT study. Therefore, it’s possible that there are more or less than 50% of commuters with a round trip commute of 22 miles who ultimately buy a PHEV. That’s an interesting, though slightly different question that this data cannot categorically answer.

Yes, the 80% number is a best hypothetical, certainly a marketing sell - if everyone could charge at work; but the 50%+ is a real number. Certainly it would not be the only reason one buys a particular PHEV.

Right, the starting point is that each commuter chose the “right” PHEV such that one picks a PHEV that had the least EV range to do one's entire roundtrip commute with one charge. USDOT data shows and Toyota says that 50%+ of American commuters can do that with the Prius Prime.

At that point, it becomes almost entirely a question of mpg. It is theoretically possible that one has a PHEV that gets 50 miles EV range, and takes almost exclusively only non-commute trips of say 50-80 miles. I'm just not aware of anyone who does this, so it's in the back-of-the-envelope small error range.

A hypothetical PHEV with 200 mile EV range and only 20 mpg ICE would probably be different.

Since the Prius Prime has the best mpg, 2x, 3x, or more EV range doesn’t help in any real world scenarios for the 50%+ percent of commuters who can do round trip in 22 miles EV or less. So these same 50%+ of commuters automatically use the least gasoline in their annual non-commute, beyond EV range miles when they do the same average number of medium and long range trips a year that Americans do.

Ultimately, it's what works best for the individual, whatever percent one falls in.

 

Not according to the Toyota Japan website; Prius Prime has slightly worst Cd than the G4 Prius, 0.25 vs. 0.24.

トヨタ 新型プリウスPHV | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト

So there you go, more mystery of the curved back windscreen....

SM-G900I ?

 

In the above Japanese link a long list of specs are given. What they say for EV range translates into 25 miles in comparison to 11 miles for the PiP. They indicate 26.4 km for PiP and above 60 km for the Prime, which is a factor 2.3; if you apply this factor to the 11 miles you get exactly 25 miles.

 

Right, 11/26.4 is 25/60 calculated, final epa should be 25 miles. Hyundai quoted initially 24 for Sonata phv, final is 27.

 

You are forgetting that the EPA 11 mile range is a blended number that includes 0.022 gallons of gasoline (about a mile worth). The Japanese test cycles are at slower speeds and with less abrupt acceleration so it's possible (I don't know) that the Japanese EV range estimates do not include using any gasoline. Thus, if you use their 2.3x scaling and apply that to the ~10 miles of EPA electric only equivalent range (11 miles - 1 mile from gasoline energy) then 10 miles x 2.3 is 23 miles or almost the same as Toyota's 22 mile preliminary EPA estimate.

 

Yes, I overlooked that, so probably 23 miles is a better estimate for now.

By the way, 10 miles for the PiP is a very low estimate compared to my experience. In my case, even in the coldest winter periods here I get a bit more EV range than that, and my average over the year is more like 13.5 miles. Given this, for my case for the Prime I will expect an average EV range of 30.5 miles which is about 50 km. So, in this way for each personal case you can make personalised estimations.

 

Not giving a car a tow rating here, but one in Europe is the norm. The link sounded like a preview with just a track drive, and may not have the complete story. Is Europe getting the AWD?

Either way, if the extra weight of the batteries is enough for Toyota to delete the middle seat, then I wouldn't bet on the Prime getting a tow rating.

Because of hilly terrain, some PiP owners experienced ICE turn on within a mile of starting out from their house. Like fuel economy, EV range is affected by many factors.

 

Right. I get about 1/3 more EV range than the 35 mile EPA estimate of my 2011 Volt. The same would be true of a 2016 Volt's 53 mile EPA range. If you or I drove it we would probably get around 70 miles of range.

 

Thanks...I am on the left coast counting Prii...

 

To the best of my knowledge, the e-four is not offered on the European continent.

I'd also like to draw your attention on the press release by Toyota Germany (attached), you can easily translate on-line.

• It states an EV-range of > 50 km according to the NEDC cycle (less realistic then EPA). Some owners will attain or even exceed it, especially in the summer.
• But intriguingly, they do not mention the name Prime, and speak of the "NEW PRIUS PLUG-IN HYBRID". Maybe they did not make up their mind yet...
• It also claims 32 g/km of CO2 ejection, the same low figure as the Ioniq Plug-in.
• Its Cw is claimed to be 0.24, identical to the Prius 2016, and not 0.25 as in Japan...
• Also in Europe, it will be possible to charge at level 2 in 2h30.
• And again surprisingly, it does not mention the large 11,6" Display, but an 8" one, probably the same of the lower trims in the USA. The reason for this may be that the large one is only Entune compatible, Entune not being available in Europe. But then, the large display is available in Japan. We wonder what we will get here, and how it will look.
• If I read it correctly, in Europe, the new Prius Plug-in will be offered with ALL the elements of Tyota Safety Sense, even the most advanced like Rear Cross Traffic Alert and Blind Spot Monitoring.

On the Toyota Japan site, one can see that the new dual-motor hybrid system provides faster acceleration then in HV mode!



This is due to the fact that in the EV-mode the one-way clutch does not allow the engine to ignite and together, the MG1 and MG2 produce 68 kW (91 PS). This means, one can floor it, like the Volt 2. For comparison, a Leaf, weighing about the same, offers 80 kW (109 PS), and the Ioniq Plug-in will offer only 45 kW (61 PS), but it may take advantage of the dual clutch gearbox.

So, the new Prius Plug-in will feel much more like an EV, as long as its HV Battery has capacity. Once depleted, it will drive much like the non-plug-in. Like the 1st gen Plug-in, the engine may rev less during acceleration or climbing, since it will take advantage of the larger remaining capacitiy. It will drive more often, engine shut down, at speeds up to 84 m/h (135 km/h).

Of some concern is that the new Plug-in has gained a lot of weight, compared to the 4-gen Prius: 150 kg! Its system performance staying the same (122 PS), one can fear that compared to the 1st gen Plug-in, it will be a bit less dynamic during normal HV driving. It remains to be seen how this is compensated by the new architecture and efficiency of the hybrid system.

This new plug-in remains a hybrid, and most probably the one with the lowest fuel consumption, even if not recharged frequently. Charged frequently, it will be a very pleasant BEV for shorter commutes and small trips.

Jan

PS. Sorry for the multiple uploads!

 

2.5 hours makes sense. many here charge pip 1 on L2 for 1.25 hours. mine takes 1.5, but my voltage may run a little low. and of course, it may depend on how low the battery is before charging. the good thing is, you get about 90% after an hour.

 

Some decisions for the European market, like no 11 in screen, could be base upon finally price after VAT and import taxes.

 

So bisco, it seems like you're on the buying side while I'm on the not buying side (5th seat issue being the largest) - I would love to see how this goes because I believe since I joined the thread we've had similar views and both love our pips and both voiced our 2nd Gen ideas.

Luxury prius I think is a bad idea (otherwise don't call it a prius). But I'm almost heart broken that for now... We will not have a new prius within a year. I was actually in the trade in buy column until the derails came out...