Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

Bold font mine.

Trollbait said: ↑
And Toyota expected the Prius plug in to sell in numbers nearly as high as GM did the Volt in its first year; 40k in Japan and 20k in the US.
Neither achieved those overreaching numbers, but who is abandoning their design goals of the first generation for two to three times EV range in the second one?

Well a lot has changed in the 8 months since this exchange. Yesterdays release of details about the Prime's reduced seating space and cargo room certainly doesn't meet two of the three "goals".

 

it's all about compromise.

 

The seating space reference was about leg & head room, not the number of butts that would fit inside. And as far as we can tell, the leg & head room has remained the same. With respect to cargo room, we lost roughly 3 inches of height. That's certainly doesn't resemble the hump we see in C-Max or the fact that Volt is still a compact.

As for introducing an entirely new exterior but keeping much of the same propulsion system, that does still count as reuse. It's not an upgrade package anymore, but the point of keeping cost contained still applies. Toyota will benefit from the shared production of those parts.

I'm really surprised you chose to stir the pot. It's no big deal, but it doesn't accomplish anything either. Not a single one of the die-hard Volt supporters have wanted to... especially now that their EREV definition has completely fallen apart.

Like what was just stated, it is about compromise. Toyota adjusted to the market. How is that a bad thing? They saw what was needed and changed their plan. The ultimate goal of reaching mainstream consumers still holds true.

 

Toyota is smart, GM????

DBCassidy

 

Even if a widely accepted definition of EREV is adopted by enthusiasts, what's the point? Consumers won't care. That message is overwhelmingly confirmed. 5 years of rhetoric shows there is nothing to gain from whatever operational or design differences can be defined. Look at how ineffective that was with "full" hybrid. People looked at MPG instead. Now, they'll add EV miles.

Know your audience.

 

If one can't meet the original goals; change them! LOL You're simply moving goal posts through semantics. Tons of feedback in the various threads concerning 4 seats and cargo space don't agree with your new definitions.

Ultimately what I'm trying to point out is these are not necessarily Toyota's official corporate goals; rather they have been your talking points. Points you've used again the Volt for years but as of yesterday are no longer valid. Just as usbseawolf talking points on the volts' suv class weight and 4 passenger seating now apply to the Mirai.

Hint: stop using them.

 

Goals for each generation change. That's a normal process. The upgrade is suppose to deliver adjustments & alterations based upon what was learned. The problem comes when people lose perspective or simply forget what the ultimate purpose was. The catch is when gen-1 rolls out. Nothing could have been learned yet, since nothing was available prior to it. So, original goals are quite important.

Haven't you noticed Prius isn't just one vehicle anymore? 4 years following gen-1 rollout of the plug-in model, there are now 2 distinct designs. Each will offer several different trims. They are all still Prius; choice have expanded though. If you want to label that as moving the goal posts or arguing semantics, so be it. Personally, I called it adding a second goal. There's a gain from that addition.

It's not a double-standard. It's not being hypocritical. Look at Volt for some perspective. It continues to be just one design upon gen-2 rollout. There simply isn't another Chevy offering. It's still the one-size-fits-all. How exactly does that achieve the "leap frog" claim?

We could consider the upcoming CT6 variant. That truly will be another choice based upon Volt technology; however, adding 2 clutches and another planetary-gearset to deliver 449 horsepower clearly doesn't target the same group of consumers. The upcoming Malibu does seem a much better comparison, but that isn't in the same category either. It's a bigger vehicle. It's also a sedan, rather than a hatchback.

Again, Toyota has branched out by offering another configuration based upon a shared design. Adding an entirely new choice like that, rather than it being a trim (package) option, is different. It's simply not the same situation. Implementing change based upon what was learned from gen-1 is a reasonable expectation. Some won't like that. Others will.

With all the spin that resulted from the ending of gen-1 production, I'm really surprised anyone is willing to speak out now trying to stir comments of the past. That spin should get attention too then. It was meritless-speculation and talking-points confirmed recently to be false. Continue to look back or finally look forward?

 

You might want to revisit the that post's coding.

I'm waiting for official measurements before making a judgement call on the cargo space of the Prime. The gen4 got a decent cargo space boost over the gen3 by ditching the underfloor bin and going with a non flat floor. Plain hybrid sedans sacrifice cargo space for the battery, and so would have past generations of the Prius if we had an ICE only model for comparison. Toyota could have kept more space by not going EREV for the EV range, but that would have been less exciting for potential buyers.

The lack of a fifth seat is still puzzling. The center area looks flush with the seats, and there is a storage bin there. So space may not have been the reason for this decision on Toyota's part.

 

In a way, that's actually good advice. GM backed itself into a corner with the "40 mile" requirement. Having been flexible would have allowed them to avoid certain tradeoffs.

 

Such as a 4 seater car?
Oops, never mind.

 

Clearly, you didn't read the prior posts. That wasn't ever a goal. Put it this way... I tired of the nonsense and was right about gen-1 rollout plans. Are we done now?

Pick something about gen-2 expectations to discuss, either Volt our Prime is fine.

 

I've said it before, I think the Prime will operate very similar to the Energi's. In that the SW will turn off full throttle EV if the battery pack is too warm no matter what mode its in. Unless we get some sort of confirmation, we won't know for well over a year from now.

 

Haven't seen any Gen2 Volt ads either on TV nor in the newspapers - why is this?

DBCassidy

 

The abrupt end to the "Prius uses old battery technology" commercials was rather telling.

 

Confirms my suspicions, : article is vague, does not offer a clear marketing approach for the general masses. What is interesting is the statement that potential buyers know more about the product that the salesperson - why is that?
Bottom line: the article clearly shows niche marketing approach.

The Volt and Bolt will never be sold as a product for the masses. GM is cherry picking dealers who want to sell the Bolt - the article stated as such.

GM, after all these years realizes now how hard it is to sell EVs?

Better late than never, or maybe to

 

Probably not a bad plan. Keep the EV products available and development going in anticipation that someday batteries will get better and oil will get more expensive. If/when that happens and if another technology (hydrogen for example) doesn't rise to the top then you'll be prepared to quickly launch higher volume EV choices. At least it's better than stopping development and crushing all your EV products

 

But, GM can not afford to wait for the above. Current market conditions and increased competition makes for a dire situation at GM.

Just look at what Tesla did yesterday: Model 3 release with many waiting for hours to part $1k on snagging a vehicle. This is pent up demand.

You will not see this with GM gen2 Volt or the Bolt.

DBCassidy