Featured 2G Prius Plug-in Reveal - March 23 @ 9:10 am EDT - Live Stream here

Yep ... up @ 3:40am. Bright eyed & ready for round 2?

tow rated? Wow i missed that .... sweet !
I can't squeeze a 5th person into the car - but i could tow an extra 8kWh's of battery range

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Existing PHV owners are not the target. Those considering the purchase of a regular Prius are. Getting 22 miles of EV rather than 0 is quite a difference.

True, there is the loss of a center seat. But people like me never use that anyway. I want comfortable seating in back for 2 passengers and an area for large cargo.

 

it's going t be all about cost.

 

Agreed.

 

If I or anyone else is back there at all, I want the ability to slide across easily. It will also get in the way of my dogs. 22 miles is just slightly less of a joke than 11 miles (particularly in a spread out city like Houston). And yes, it's all about the cost. We'll see.

 

Due to lack of a plug in options where we currently live, this wouldn't be on our list anyway but I am surprised that the back seat has a console. As someone who only transports dogs in my backseat, that would be pretty inconvenient.

 

Does the forecasted / predicted EPA account for CS mode? That's one thing I'm hoping will be a big plus, whatever it turns out to be.
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It makes no sense to charge the larger PHEV battery with the ICE while driving. If the ICE has to run, it's more efficient to use it to push the car. However, braking and coming down long mountain roads will help charge the PHEV battery.

 

agreed, but keep in mind, that is a new feature, and people will use it to their mpg detriment.

 

The Prime's battery is also under the rear seats. 20 miles seem to be the best balance of range, space, and ICE fuel economy at this time. And also Price, but we don't know if we will get that from Toyota yet.

That link doesn't do a very good job of breaking down what distances commutes are driven by a private car. 29% are 1 to 5 miles one way. I suspect most of that group is slanted to towards walking, biking, and public transport than the farther distances.

I'm having trouble finding a source for this.

And the new Volt will use less gas for 85% of commuters compared to other PHEVs. For example, I would use about a gallon of gas with a Volt during the work week. With the Prime, it will be 5.5 gallons.

Your statement is lacking qualifiers for a meaningful discussion.

The four seats is quite puzzling.

Not according to the US owners' manual. There it is zero, or "Toyota does not recommend towing a trailer with your vehicle. Toyota also does not recommend the installation of a tow hitch or the use of a tow hitch carrier for a wheelchair, scooter, bicycle, etc. Your vehicle is not designed for trailer towing or for the use of tow hitch mounted carriers." I can see saying that about powered wheelchairs and scooters,they can be heavy, but bicycles.

I suspect the tow rating, where Toyota allows it, applies only to the E-four models, as with it is with AWD only with their hybrid SUVs.

Like the EV button, Which was likely kept from the US market at first for that reason, in part.

 

exactly. how many neubies do we get saying, 'i use ev as much as possible'.

you have already read the new pip o/m?

 

For some perspective...

Toyota sold 2,499,313 vehicles in the United States last year. Their top-selling car was Camry. 429,355 were purchased. That’s a total of 17%. That in itself shows there's lots of opportunity available. Next, consider what the 51% commute value means to the 17,470,659 vehicles all the automakers combined sold in the United States last year. That's a great deal of potential for the seemingly small 22-mile EV range.

Remember, this isn't a one-size-fits-all situation. There will be other vehicles with other configurations. Nonetheless, it should be easy to see there isn't tiny market as some are attempting to portray. Don't forget that the system will still deliver outstanding efficiency even when the engine does run. Averages over 100 MPG will appeal to some buyers.

The industry target in this market (United States) for a vehicle to be considered mainstream, which means it is able to maintain consistent profitable sales without outside incentives (like, tax-credits & HOV privileges), is an annual rate of 60,000. So, the question we should focus on is how & when would this be realistic.

 

merged.

It costs them more to drive in all electric, plus the associated losses when you transfer electricity, plus the chore of plugging in. Am i missing something? Chevy Volt is now available; Compare Side-by-Side

 

sure, the market is huge, but that's not what makes a product succeed. in many parts of the country, with current gas prices, it's more expensive to drive ev, sos a lift back is more efficient. that may change, or electric prices may keep going up in some places. for most of the driving public, it's always going to be a matter of economics.

 

Nope, I thought the tow rating was about the gen4 and Prius in general. Bob W. mentioned a 750kg tow rating being in the technical papers he got, and I'm guessing that might be in relation to AWD. With non-selectable traction control on the HSD, that was twitchy in the past, the weight of a trailer on the back end could lead to it activating when starting from a stop on a FWD model. So towing was only available with AWD models.

If Tideland was speaking about the Prime, the ability might not be available in the US, and still relies on AWD, or the Prime's HSD is different enough that Toyota no longer feels the need to be protective of it in the case of towing.

Doesn't all that apply to the Prime too?

 

okay, lee jay posted about having to get your tesla towed when you ran out of juice. hill responded in his usual manor saying prius is not rated to tow. tideland says yes it is. we're in a prius prime thread, and i don't know what we're talking about.

 

I look at it this way...

We've encountered lots of people along the way who said Prius wasn't efficient enough, that higher MPG would be needed for it to really take hold. That didn't turn out to be the case. The balance Toyota strived for is what attracted lots of sales.

The hope is that same will be true now with the plug-in model. It doesn't offer as much EV as detractors said it should, but it doesn't compromise shortage space to an extreme either. We'll lose roughly 3 inches of floor height for cargo, but a large open area for cargo will still be available. The leg & head room could end up being identical to the regular Prius. The efficiency without plugging in should be fairly close to the same.

There's also hope it will be easier to sell than an EV or even another plug-in hybrid. It's a Prius. People are already familiar with the proven reputation for reliability. You can plug in using just an ordinary household outlet too. No need for a level-2 charger means a savings often overlooked by those thinking more is better.

Gas prices do present serious challenges. But we know emission concerns will help the effort along. There's a growing spirit of cooperation among plug-in supporters too.

Hopefully, all that will allow us to capture the available market.

 

Not so. It’s all there and clearly laid out. Fully 88% are driven by car (drive alone + carpool).

Again, 88% are driven by car. One could (incorrectly) assume the worst case scenario that all of the non-car modes are 1-5 miles one-way commutes. Even so, it barely moves the needle and the numbers I stated are unchanged.

Please go back and read my last two posts in this thread. Two sources were provided, including the very link and purpose of this thread – the Live Stream Event.

Again, the second source is Commuter Driving Statistics – Statistic Brain
(National Household Travel Survey, US Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics)

Which shows 78% of round trip commutes are less than 40 miles and 85% are less than 50 miles. That confirms Toyota's statement that 80% of commuters can do all EV if can charge at work.

That’s not correct. One may have heard that somewhere and could continue to make statements such as these, but the data says no.

This is not relevant to the discussion. My round trip commute is 3 miles. But that is also irrelevant.

That’s not correct. You may not like what the data clearly says, but my statement and Toyota’s are well supported by the data.

It remains the case that the Prius Prime uses less gasoline fuel for 50%+ of commuters compared to other PHEVs.

 

Well the guy said he had an owner's manual. That seems like he must be reading out of the old Rev manual & missing the news that this is a newer vehicle. I'd vote for Tideland as being the one who is correct. He is the certified guru ... and he may have actually asked the chief engineer. And besides, - how can I tow a trailer with the additional 8 kwh's of batteries if it's not tow rated? My usual manner? Better have a conversation with my wife - she'll straighten you out quick. Everything about my manner is strictly unusual.

Speaking of side by side - is there a link showing the PiPP's Drag CD. Along with weight - one might determine how costly runninng EV is.

 

agree with all your points, but i still think they could have made a place for the battery during the redesign of the prius chassis, and that would have helped even more.