Suggested Improvements for Gen-5 Prius

I want Pulse and Glide Dynamics based on mode.

We are told that new drivers expect drag when coasting so Toyota added some. This makes it harder to glide than it would be.

Running up the cruise control speed COULD pulse the car to a higher speed at the maximum level of efficiency, it doesn't.

Let pretend that for legal reasons the Prius HAS to act like a normal car for beginning driver.

If we make a non permanent P&G mode (or make ECO require setting each time you start the car, like PWR) then Toyota is covered legally, any new driver who start a Prius gets driving dynamics like they are used to, but experienced drivers can have simple Pulse and Glide.

You set your max speed on the Cruise Control and then flick it off, gliding down to your minimum acceptable speed, and then flick it back on and it will pulse back to Max speed with the most economical acceleration.

When I got the Gen 2 I was amazed that every design group thought about efficiency (Electric A/C, HID lights, Aerodynamic bodyworks, etc.) not just a new drivetrain in an existing car. Except the Cruise Control, they just phoned in the same 'solution' they had for every other Toyota.

There has been no improvement in Gen 3 or 4. (Radar Cruise Control helps safety but not efficiency)

So Toyota, while in Normal or PWR, feel free to give us Cruise Control from the 90s, but lets make Cruise Control in ECO economical as can be.

(As always, there is no hint Toyota ever reads these forums, so this just serves as a rant)

 

Please stop installing a poorly designed infotainment system. Just offer aftermarket options (e.g. CarPlay systems), or the option for nothing but internal wiring and empty headunit/speaker locations.

 

How about a 12 volt power outlet in the dash, per 3rd gen.

 

Alternatively they could just stop making them as with that "feature" (Louder internal reverse beep and flashing light that couldn't be disabled) , few people would buy them.

 

So a buyer would get a Volt, not plug it in, but use the, "I can plug it in" as an excuse when the fuel economy is pointed out.

The EU and as designed operation works in the manner I described. The only hard detail I know off the top of my head is that the fuel tank is a half gallon larger in the EU.

I don't see an official non-CARB version arriving in the US with more of the population and more of the sales being in CARB states. With the proper software for accessing the ECU program, turning 'off' the CARB hobble might be very simple.

I agree, the REX engine is an off the shelf motorcycle one operating with serial hybrid losses. With only part of the i3s being sold going to be REXs, optimizing the ICE simply wasn't a priority for BMW. The car is mostly a show piece for lower cost carbon fiber.

I'm just pointing out that using the CARB hobbled version isn't a legitimate way of judging the car's as designed efficiency. By making the CARB unit wait until 15% SOC before allowing the ICE to be turned on, that 600cc engine is going to be running harder than intended. Possibly in less efficient loads. I would not be surprised if the hobble meant burning more gas, and emitting more pollutants.

A furnace is external combustion though. While converting an existing ICE to run on natural gas is straight forward, the engine won't be making the most use of fuel. NG has an octane of 120; it needs a higher compression ratio to take full advantage of in a piston engine. Though that may not be entirely needed if co-gen can be implemented.

We didn't see a soft cruise as Bob calls it, until the gen2 Fusion hybrid. Ford calls it Eco Cruise. It allows the car to slow down to a greater extent than standard cruise on hills, and doesn't hit the throttle as hard to regain speed.

Hyundai's hybrids will pulse and glide in cruise, or perhaps when just at a steady speed. There isn't the speed gradient hypermilers go for. The system pulses the ICE, but shunts power in excess of what is needed to maintain speed to the battery. When that is full, the ICE shuts down, and the motor takes over until the battery SOC drops low, and then it repeats.

Some plug ins give the driver more options in accessing free wheeling, or at least in amount of accelerator and brake off regen drag. There still might be legal issues with true free wheeling, but it can be set to lighter than what the Prius as to hard enough to activate the brake lights.

 

Energy conversion issues aside....
Most of the power produced is still used to overcome
aerodynamic drag. So, a hyper-aerodynamic shape is
called for.

For starters:

Lower the hoodline and lengthen the body by canting
the engine to toward the rear.

Taper the body towards the rear (like the Gen 1 Insight)

A suspension system that lowers the car at highway speed.... (already in use in some cars..)

Any other aero tricks, please chime in.

GM Impact was truly aero.....

 

Toyota could split the pack into 2 and leave the center clear for the exhaust. They could also make a single pack not as wide and run the exhaust close to the side of the car. There are many designs to make the skateboard design work. The pack doesn't have to be as wide as the car. It would also keep the center of gravity lower than even the gen 4 Prius.

 

Generally speaking 5th Gen would be more of the same; spend less energy and recoup more. Tech wise, those goals will be realised by using SiC, Supercaps, better HV batteries and an even more thermal efficient ICE.

 

Given that each generation last about 6 years, the Gen 5 Prius will debut in 2022. Toyota usually debut its latest affortable technology in the Prius. By that time, autonomous vehicle would have already entered the market by other manufacturers. Hopefully Toyota can include that in the Prius. A self driving car that gets 50+mpg with 600+mile range. I'd buy that.

 

I don't suppose Toyota ever had any interest in building a 2 seater aero coupe around the Prius hybrid system...?

That would set my heart a-flutter.... An easy 70MPG and a 1000 mile range! The "Prius 1000" !

Regards, Steve

 

I would not be concerned about a get 5, there will be one, the government fuel economy regulations will push all manufacturers toward hybrids as well as other alt fuel vehicles, unless of course the political climate in Washington changes.....

 

Well heck yeah, they are doing well so far. Aren't they up to like 2.x % market share hybrids/ plugins combined?

I remember the guy who proudly stood up at the first plug-in America conference is San Jose and said 'I won't buy another car until it has a plug in it' while the audience clapped and shed a tear. That was in 2008. Yeah, there's lots of hybrids and plugins on the market now, but most of them don't sell worth a squat.

 

There have been "2-stage hybrid" systems from years ago (Lexus GS450h & LS600h/LS600hL),
and they have been trickled down to Toyota Crown Hybrid (JDM only for now).

 

All these cars uses the same transaxle: L110 for RWD and L110F for AWD (LS600h).

Best quote of this article:
"Somewhere, both Farraday and Tesla are smiling".
Tesla uses induction motor with copper rotor and does 2.8sec for 0-60. Could another permanent magnet EV do the same?