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Suggested Improvements for Gen-5 Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by bwilson4web, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    change est. cost est. benefit
    1 electric oil pump engine same as electric water pump ~2% thermal efficiency gain over engine driven
    2 electric oil pump transaxle same as above ~1% thermal efficiency gain over engine driven
    3 spin-on oil filter engine cheaper than current spin plug save $20-30 labor per oil change
    4 spin-on oil filter transaxle adds threaded nipple $5-10 removes manufacturing debris extends life
    5 dealer option wheels/tires ~$5000 per dealer and $50 labor upper grade Prius achieve ECO MPG
    6 auto free-wheel mode one-time $50000 labor add 2-5 MPG
    7 soft cruise control one-time $50000 labor Adjust PID to allow 2-5 MPG speed changes for hilly country with slower up-grade speed and slightly faster down-grade. Something like 'Ford ECO cruise.'
    8 1.5kW inverter $350 per car and $100 labor Prius becomes highly efficient safe emergency power source
    9 plug-in lite preheat and summer cool and voltage topping one time $100000 and $100 parts solving cold-start +5-20 MPG makes plug-in redundant
    10 receiver hitch $350 at dealer or port avoid Curt hitch
    11 engine tune for E85/E100 one time $5000 opens Brazil and USA Midwest
    12 sell traction battery modules $200 pair supports 3d party rebuilders and kills $4-5000 battery replacement rumors
    13 owner beep adjustment one-time $10000 some way to the owner can change settings without a service call
    14 external backup beep $15 in light assembly reduces pedestrian claims for walking behind backing Prius
    15 external turn signal beep $15 in light assembly reduces pedestrian claims for walking in front of turning Prius
    16 lockup high speed one time $200000 and $100 parts provide engine counter torque w/o MG1
    17 VVTL valve duration and phase one time $500000 and $300 parts optimizes intake valve for more efficiency
    18 engine compartment thermal management $200000 and $300 parts improves cold and hot weather temperature management including transaxle
    19 exhaust heat absorption cooler $100000 and $200 parts adds 3-5 MPG
    20 split glove compartment $50000 and $10 parts separate cop papers from Owner's Manual and 'sensitive' stuff (aka. crash underwear)
    21 open source info-tainment one time $50000 and change parts after-market companies provide value-added cabin options
    22 add a 12V power plug one time $10000 and $10 parts returns 3d party power for dash cams and 100W AC power inverters
    23
    24 vertical wiper rest one-time $50000 labor cool factor
    25 moon caps $250 at dealer just cool

    Well someone as to start the list. <GRINS>

    Now to add some of the practical suggestions that we should discuss. But these proposals have to be realistic, precise, and accurately described (i.e., "feathered accelerator" fails.) By the same token, I'm OK with discussions and debate about my suggestions.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Thinking ahead...I like it!

    ...this reminds me that one rumor we had - not too many years ago - that Plug-in would be standard on Gen4 never happened
     
    #2 wjtracy, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Too early.
    I can't even wrap my head fully around the Gen 4 Prius.
    I'm going to have to ease myself into the first model refresh in a couple of years.

    And I'm staying pretty conservative thus far with things like "drop the "toilet bowl" console look".

    But just to upset the hen house...

    I'd like to see a louder and even more intrusive and repetitive back-up beep. Synchronized to flashing interior dome lights. And I'd like it if Toyota made it impossible to disable.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In your case, no reverse so you can put it in neutral and push the car back. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    A long shot, but this could be rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic: will there be a 5th generation?
     
  6. Pijoto

    Pijoto Active Member

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    The Prius has been successful enough to survive one lukewarm generation, if 4th Gen doesn't sale as well, hopefully it may bring about the 5th Gen sooner (if not a face-lift on the 4th Gen refresh in a couple years). The design of the 4th Gen is starting to grow on me, but a more mainstream look would definitely be an improvement for 5th Gen, which I'm hoping to upgrade to sometime in the future...
     
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  7. Yamamoto2

    Yamamoto2 Junior Member

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    - induction or SR motor instead permanent magnet in transaxle.
    - additional gears in transaxle, similar to GS450h. Fixed gear for high speed cruising.
    - VVTL or similar system to improve ICE specific power.
    - thermal insulation coat for ICE block for cold-weather MPG improvement.
    - shared climat-control system both for cabin and HVB to improve cold-weather HVB performance.
    - fully hided in unibody exhaust pipe
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    2. Never had the experience with Toyota's cartridge filter, but it is one of the best things about the HHR and Sonic. Easy changing from the top of the engine, with no more oil dribbling all over. Only complaint is the cost compared to the old style filters.
    5. Ford already has that cruise control on their hybrids. Don't see Toyota licensing it from them.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when will gen 5 be hitting the dealerships?
     
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  10. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Member

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    -New futuristic look
    -100% automation mode
    -Electric powered only with a minimum of 500 mile range per charge and can be fully charged at home within 30 minutes
    -Having a switch where we can turn tinted windows on or off
    -http://blog.caranddriver.com/toyota-developing-radical-3-d-head-up-display-for-production/
     
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  11. stephane

    stephane Prius v owner

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    wings to fly....
     
  12. Sillywizard

    Sillywizard Junior Member

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    I would have liked to have seen a reduction in the size of the ICE and an increase in the electrical range/power/capacity in the gen 4, but that didn't happen.
    How things will look in five years is anybody's guess, but a turbo 3-cylinder 1-liter ICE? Perhaps Toyota could license Fords engine.

    Frankly, gen 5 Prius = Mirai!
     
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  13. Zojja

    Zojja Active Member

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    No wheels, it should hover
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson

    I'm open to discussion but this is my first take.

    Bob Wilson

    It makes sense to cover the different, efficient vehicle architectures, strengths and weaknesses:
    • EV-only
    • EV range extended
    • Prius
    If you want an EV, buy one but it won't be a Prius.

    EV range extended both the Volt and i3-REX suffer from a problem of inefficient engines. The claim is EV mode masks the inefficient engines. But the problem is it is either/or, they do not hand off or 'share' the load in normal operation. Because they have to be plugged-in that rules out a large percentage of the USA population. Not that it can't work, it just takes a different infrastructure.

    Prius uses an efficient engine that swaps the vehicle load with a limited EV mode. When the engine takes the load, it runs at a higher power setting, very efficiently and banks the extra power in the traction battery. When it can, the Prius turns off the engine and uses the recently banked, efficiently generated energy.

    The only problem is the cold-start and the power plants that make electricity for EVs and Plug-ins have the same problem. Starting them from a cold start, even changing their power output is inefficient. So they tend to run constantly and offer very low rates at night. The Prius suffers the same, inefficiency window.

    So what I'd like to see is a co-generation option and flex fuel to use natural gas. When we get our car home in the evening, it continues to run on natural gas and generates heat and power for the house. Using absorption cycle, cooling.

    I'll come back to this to do an end-to-end efficiency study with metrics:
    • ~44% efficiency - plug-in power source
    • ~40% efficiency - 2016 Prius engine
    • ~95% efficiency - power controller and motor/generator efficiency
    Bob Wilson
     
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  15. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Toyota need to adapt Tasla's battery placement and mount a good 15-20kw under the car. This give enough space for a good 17-20 gallon tank under the seat. That's enough for 50 miles range on electric and 1000 miles on gas. With the battery and gas tank placement, there should be enough room in the trunk for storage compartment and a spare tire. There's no need to improve the gas mileage of the car 58MPG city is good enough. Toyota need to build a quicker Prius to beat the Volt, if not at least match it.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    To use a skateboard battery pack, the ICE would have to be moved to the rear. GM was an early developer of the skateboard design, and they use it in the Spark EV and Bolt. They don't use it on the Volt because of the hot exhaust system that has to run to the back.
     
  17. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Bob,

    I thought the rudder on this Tatra T87 would be of interest

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Volt can run fine as a straight hybrid, but why spend the money for a plug and not use it.

    The i3 REX does need to be plugged in*. The operation philosophy behind it is how I pictured the Volt working when first announced. You take a BEV and stick a small genset on it for serial hybrid operation. The genset isn't large enough to provide full power, but that's okay. A human smart enough to drive a car should be smart enough to know if the trip they are starting is beyond the EV range of the car. So they just turn the genset on before the battery is depleted. The genset can probably maintain 60mph on flat ground. For acceleration, hill climbing, and higher speeds, the i3REX dips into its grid charge. In a properly working i3 REX, the driver can choose to turn on the ICE as early as the battery at 80% SOC, so they should only ever run into underpowered performance if they forgot to turn on the ICE for their longer trip.

    In order to get ZEV credits in the US, BMW had to hobble the hybrid operation. The driver can't turn the ICE on until the SOC is down to 15%. Fuel economy tests performed when the battery charge is that low should be viewed as worse case, since the car isn't being operated as it was intended.

    *Technically, it should be possible to charge the battery up with the genset. Not ideal, but would extend the car's usability during periods of long power outages.

    Having the ICE efficient on both gasoline and NG will increase the cost.
    I am having trouble seeing a practical way of transferring heat from the car to the house. People whine about the idea ofplugging a car in when they get home. Imagine the outcry of having to hook up a NG line and plumbing for coolant lines.:D
     
  19. Grus

    Grus Member

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    I have heard their electic turbocharger is on the way ... :p
    And their SiC power semiconductor for HV inverter is aimed for production after 2020 (publicly declaired).
     
    #19 Grus, Feb 21, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Perhaps to justify use of an inefficient engine and drive system.
    I would be interested in the source but it still uses an inefficient, hobbled engine. Is there an EU version that works as you describe? Since outside of CARB, there is no advantage, perhaps a non-CARB version might be available someday. The irony is the Precept used a similar architecture.
    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. The REX engine is too inefficient. As for natural gas, dual-fuel, it is not that hard or expensive having recently replaced a gas furnace with a high efficiency unit.
    I've been thinking of a smart curb that plugs itself in . . . in effect a Prius docking station.

    From what early reports I've read, it sounds like the Chevy Malibu hybrid may be the first GM attempt to replicate the Prius. But let's wait for the production models to show up.

    Bob Wilson