Prius vs. HUMMER: Exploding the Myth

Tis an ill wind that blows no good:

Source: Quantitative Analysis of a Hybrid Electric Humvee for Fuel Economy Improvement :: Defense Tech Briefs

These are military grade, not the 'toy solder' ones that drive around on our streets. These Hummers have 6.2L, diesel V8s. The DoD investigators are talking about the difference between 6 and 8 MPG in field conditions which might not seem like much unless you have to drive the fuel truck to refuel combat vehicles. But the Hummer hybrid is interesting:

• Diesel - 100kW
• Traction battery - 100kW
• Front and rear wheels each have 100kW motors
• Series hybrid

What they found is the hybrid performs better at speeds over 10 mph because the engine stays in its peak performance range. In contrast, the automatic transmission Hummer operates all over the engine map. Even diesels have 'bad places' in their BSFC operation.

Because there is little operation at higher speeds in their field-like benchmarks, regenerative braking made little contribution to over all fuel economy.

So for those who love diesels and hybrids, DoD has a big one, a real Hummer. It won't go terribly fast, needs wide streets, and the mileage s*cks but it exists.

Bob Wilson

 

Or unless one understands the reciprocal nature of MPG. The savings between 6 MPG (16.6 gallons per 100 miles) and 8 MPG (12.5 gallons per 100 miles) is 4.1 gallons per 100 miles, a larger improvement than driving TWO Prii, and NEVER having to fill them with gas. 50 MPG (2 gallons per 100 miles, each)

 

I don't understand why the CNW report bothers hybrid owners so much.
Everyone knows it is false. It is blatantly obvious.

 

Based on the timestamps, I don't see any evidence that it currently bothers hybrid owners at all. The myth promoters and believers mostly faded into oblivion years ago.

 

Unfortunately, I disagree with both. It definitely bothers me because not "everyone knows it is false".

There are still people who cite that stupid CNW junk-science that refuses to die, not necessarily by name but indirectly by some of its bogus assertions. It's not helped that Top Gear has helped perpetuate them. I still have been seeing such crap this year and I'm sure if I dug around, I could see recent random comments on the web citing it.

 

People with a anti-hybrid agenda (like Jeremy Clarkson)..... they know perfectly well that it's a daft conclusion. All you really need to do is cite a reputable source like Greenercars.org that rates midsize/compact hybrids around 55% clean, and the Hummer only at 19%

 

^^^
I have a collection of links at Environmental - Prius Wiki. Lifespan/Operating costs - Prius Wiki helps w/debunking the ridiculous Prius lifespan claims from the CNW junk science that refuses to die.

 

This actually reveals one the biggest lies:

• Hybrids (and EVs) are just a green statement, a life-style

This "big lie" was repeated again in Thursday's Autoline After Hours, June 12, 2014, the Wards/Detroit News podcast. It appears to be a common thread in hybrid skeptics.

Instead of looking at the basic engineering, the physical metrics, these idiots lie to themselves that we're wooly-headed, "greenies." They have fooled themselves into thinking we are charactertures of their delusional vision instead of facing the truth, the facts and data. So a troll shows up, repeating the same boring nonsense we've heard so many times before . . . pathetic.

The troll's purpose is to try and find some sweet lie, some false claim, some fraud to fool if not us, then the newbies. But last month, nearly 16,000 Prius hatchbacks were bought and an equal number of the next tier . . . and the third tier. That is the voice the trolls can't hear in the fantasy world of their own making. For example, John McElroy of Autoline Daily started reporting three months ago that hybrid sales were off. At one point claiming,"Nobody wants them." Then Aprils and May come back as gang-busters and he only acknowledges the Leaf, 3,000 units, while ignoring the 16,000 Prius hatchbacks and nearly 32,000 of the next two tiers.

Over the years, I've come across individuals with 'selective audio accuity' who only hear what they want to hear. Their mouths work but there are some things that can not break through their illusions, their world view. So this is how I deal with them:

1. "Straight man" - they are easily the butt of jokes because of their Kabuki-like actions.
2. "Confront them" - another approach, I admire those who do.
3. "Tune them out" - a toddler's tantrum, best ignored.

Nothing changes the facts:

• Hummer is out of business . . . even the military found them inadequate in combat
• Prius hatchback is in business . . . millions sold in the USA and more around the world

CNW Marketing tried the "green" fraud and remains a fool's choice.

Bob Wilson

 

While some folks still cling to those anti-hybrid myths, the amount I encounter seems to have diminished by at least an order of magnitude.

 

The more people that get first hand knowledge the less traction misleading information will have.

 

I'm having trouble reconciling this, with bwilson's post #128.

iow's everyone does not know it's false ... some well meaning but ignorant people simply need a really - really huge fact stick beating them over the head for a long long time before their eyes suddenly open up, and the scales fall off. Takes a lot of patience. It's a remarkable thing when that mental paradigm shift happens.
.

 

Update to an ancient "study" that claimed an H2 would last 300K miles - a Prius only 100K miles:

Prius' new look harder to mock | TribLIVE

 

wow, nice write up!

 

I'm reading this zombie thread, and don't understand why it is alive.

we have vulture capitalist vinod khosla that has said the prius is green washing. I think these statements are more prevalent than the cnw ones today. Lutz one of those original prius haters is now 84 years old and totally out of gm is now showing his hate to the bolt and tesla instead of the prius.

The greenwashing charge is a harder thing to debunk than cnw
Toyota Prius “Harmony” | Greenwashing Index
Prius: Green or greenwash? | Grist

OK prius fans - go

 

It just seemed more efficient to bump this thread than for me to start a new one without the old posts if anyone needs to know what the Dust to Dust "study" was.

 

Between 2009 and the most current data, Toyota sold 696,061 hatchbacks (using Wiki data.) Off hand, consumers have voted with their wallets. Then if we add the other two models, 920,763.

So that means the nay-sayers haven't had a whole lot of success . . .

Bob Wilson

 

The sad thing about publications like Dust to Dust and social media is they are hit-and-run. If you can't respond immediately they win.

Yes, they were refuted, but they promoted their agenda. A few people might regret not buying a Prius because they were duped by Dust to Dust, although it should not be that hard to see thru it...not a true study of the fact, followed by a conclusion, but propaganda to twist facts(?) to support their opinion.

 

I suspect they provide 'cover' for someone who doesn't want to buy a Prius. For example, last year I saw at least two comments about 'landfills full of batteries' and excessive traction battery replacement costs. So I always offer to bring a shovel if they'll point me to the landfill of traction batteries and suggest they add $1,000 or so to the traction battery replacement cost 'just for you.'

Bob Wilson

 

I know my Insight's traction pack has already been harvested.

 

Has anyone posted on the million-kilometer (600,000-mile) Prius taxi?

Countless times this Austrian Prius has responded to the bunked study: "I'll be bock"

Toyota Prius Taxi Logs More Than 600,000 Miles; Batteries Last, Apparently (Video)