In other words, 240V X 32A X 9 hrs. = 69 kWh? In my experience, these manufacturer charge times are conservative. For example, my 2011 Volt charge time is listed by GM as 240V (at 16A) at 4 hours = 15.6 kWh but in reality 208V at 15A at 3:45 = 11.7 kWh closely matches the actual kWh and charging time according to the ChargePoint station at my workplace. If you apply 208V at 32A for 9 hours to the Bolt you get 59.9 kWh. I think that is likely to be a lot closer to reality than 69 kwh.
you do need a certain tax amount to claim $7,500., and that would be $7,500. but you can usually lease, and get the rebate thrown in.
I used the Fit (ICE) for comparative size match, better reliability/mpg and the Prius (Hybrid) as a base reference for better reliability/mpg. The proposed asking "Base" price of the Bolt is advertised as $37,5000 and "up to" $7,500 TAX CREDIT, not rebate. I addressed that issue earlier. Even if one lives in Silicon Valley where the entitled are given free charging at work, and assuming one never does a round trip from work exceeding 200 miles (zero fuel costs), basic math shows you could drive appx 390,000 miles with the Fit and 332,000 with the Prius @$2.00 per gallon (above current national average) before you would match the TCO difference. I did not figure in the "up to" tax credit as not everyone will qualify. This is keeping it basic and as per the original premise. We could "discuss what ifs" all day, but I believe this is a neutral fair assessment considering I gave the Bolt free fuel. As to gas prices going up in the future, we could also "try" to figure electric rates at home and paid chargers if you want to add those back in, but good luck with that variable.
Few buyers that are considering a car with a price tag north of thirty grand would look at an entry level econobox with a manual transmission, though, and the reasons why have nothing to do with size and reliability. A Bolt to a Fit comparison isn't going to be like to like for the same reasons that the gen2 Prius to Corolla comparisons weren't like to like back in 2005. SKS wasn't even an option for the Corolla back then, and the current Fit and Prius won't be letting you use a smart phone as a door SKS fob. Yes, you need to owe enough to get the full benefit of the tax credit. Which is why everyone, aside from Toyota, rolled the tax credit value into their plug in leases from the beginning. Edmunds includes the tax credit for their general TCO. An individual needs to consider what their tax burden is, but they also have to consider the local gas prices($2 where I am at), electric rates(I wouldn't get free work charging), and insurance premiums.
Which confirms my premise that EVs are warm-and-fuzzies for the well-to-do...which was resisted in content...and not practical unrestricted replacements for regular folks driving ICE and Hybrid (Prius).
If one is paying less than $7,500 in fed taxes so can't take full advantage of the credit I'd wager that they shouldn't be buying any new car, not just a Bolt.
And hybrids were once warm-and-fuzzies for the well to do, and also dismissively brushed aside. Though for the really well to do, a Model S likely has a lower TCO than the BMW, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac, etc. they would have bought instead. Then the Bolt might also have a lower one than a comparatively equipped Buick Encore.
i believe alt fuel vehicles still remain in the domain of above average earners, or those with an interest in the many benefits. i have no data though just anecdotes.
Correct..."were" once...and while there is still a hybrid premium that not all can justify, they are not limited use vehicles. I never said EV's won't "possibly"...one day...work for the masses as a replacement, just not now. I even complimented Zythryn in helping pay for the R&D with his ability to buy a Tesla S...though likely not his reason for buying one.
Hey frodoz, how about starting a new thread where you can just bash EV's and the people that buy them. Would be more considerate. If you can't tell, there are going to be very few people on here that agree with you. So you can argue til you are blue in the face, but it probably will do nothing but waste your time. And if you have time to waste maybe you should do something productive so you can eventually be included in those "well to do's" you like to talk about.
To help bring this back on topic, here's an interview with Josh Tavel, the chief engineer for the Bolt. Interesting insight as to why they made it the way they did: Exclusive: Inside The Chevrolet Bolt With Its Chief Engineer - New Details
The novel completely one-pedal driving with no inherent need to ever touch the brake pedal is intriguing. I want to try that out.
A few months ago, I finally got around to trying to drive in L in my Energi and it's nearly one pedal around town. I love it! I typically only need to touch the brakes at stop signs/lights or when it's prudent to flash the brake lights. My understanding about volt 2.0 is the regen paddle activates brake lights. I wonder if L gear in the Bolt will do the same. L+regen paddle surely activates brake lights (?), I'd think.
While you didn't say EV's will never make it as a replacement for the masses, using dismissive terms like "toys" and "warm and fuzzies" leaves the reader with the impression that you actually don't expect it happen. Then picking the Fit for comparison is the old anti-hybrid Echo to a Prius one with different colors. No one is claiming BEVs will have it easy reaching the point of being viable for the masses, and $37.5k for a car is a steep price for many. It is a 200+ mile range BEV though. The only one currently available that can do that is also double that price. The 100 mile range Leaf is a little over $34k. So we are getting another 100 miles for under a four grand. Not actually novel. It has been on BEV concepts that are over a decade old, and Teslas also use it. Perhaps also the i3. The eGolf uses shifter to control regen amount too. On the heaviest settings, the brake lights come on. The deceleration rate for when brake lights should come on might be spelled out in the vehicle codes. The Prius nub should be a good fit for a BEV, but there are valid reasons Toyota hasn't used it outside of actual Prius models. Cost is one, but when we start talking about BEVs, customer acceptance becomes a bigger one. Technically, there is no reason why we can't just ditch the steering wheel, brake and accelerator pedals for a simple joystick or game controller. It would save costs and weight with the removal of all those parts, but we'll get self driving cars before the public would buy such a car.
agreed. i have said more than once that it's the customer that often stands in the way of technology upgrades. i'm sure that's why the hycam still has a whacko shifter which is in the way of everything. it's the expected customer base they are trying to lure. but in the final analysis, they aren't getting enough crossover people to keep cow towing to them, design wise, imo.
The Bolt's version is actually novel, as I think I understand it. A few other cars like the BMW i3 and Model S have at least optional strong regen braking when the accelerator pedal is lifted and can bring the car near or perhaps even to a complete stop on a flat road. The Model S has an option for creep but it can be turned off. If you are on a flat road perhaps the Model S or i3 will remain still. However, the Bolt is unique in actually holding the car stopped (presumably with the brake light on?) even on an incline the same way it acts in "Hill Hold" where the car uses friction brakes (I assume) without the driver needing to step on the brake pedal to keep the car from moving. Other cars like the Model S do not actively hold the car still with friction braking and if you were on hill the car would probably roll at a slow speed while being mostly held back through regenerative braking. The Bolt would hold itself in place until the accelerator is pressed or the brake pedal is pressed and released.
