Toyota Mirai receives the Environmental Award of the year in Austria

I thought Toyota wasn't after trophies.

 

i guess the aaa is just trying to appease the government.

 

Nice to hear at least one of the Toyota executives state EVs are a part of the future.

 

In Austria we have 2 public Hydrogen fuel stations, both operated by OMV.
The company OMV wants to be a first mover in providing both infrastructure for H2 fuels stations as well as H2 as fuel itself.

The EU supports the demonstration project "HyFIVE" (Hydrogen For Innovativ Vehicles) - HyFIVE PROJECT

So technically Austria is ready to drive the Mirai

Cheers, Pale Fox

 

Why didn't they stick it out with the eQ then? It is the poster child of what Toyota means when they say short distance BEV.

 

Toyota To Launch EV Car Sharing Service In Okinawa

 

The entire point of the incentive was to help with battery development and cost.
http://priuschat.com/threads/alternative-fuel-incentives-discussion.152081/

With a top speed of 38mph, the Toyota COMS is faster than the GEM. Though the GEM does seat at least two, was first available 1998, and the latest two seater can have a range nearly three times that of the COMS. I'll opt for the COMS, and its single seat, over the Xebra though.

Toyota COMS Electric Vehicle One Sexy Golf Cart | EarthTechling
Battery Range - Charging Options | Polaris GEM Vehicles

 

Postive Article, I hope to see more positive appreciation of the Mirai, rather then negative sayers, of this exciting tech. (no pun intended)

 

Remind me how long it takes a FCV to fill up? and how many cars can a hydrogen pump fill in an hour? And I mean a hydrogen pump on the market today (not vapour ware).

The new 100kw chademo chargers that are appearing here can charge a suitable car (Soul EV, new 30kwh Leaf) in 10 minutes.

Governments only like hydrogen as it's something they can tax.

 

Well what happen with being positive
Toyota says less then 5 minutes to fill a tank. Hydrogen pump can only fill one car at a time.

 

Damn speech recognition. How many cars can a hydrogen pump fill in an hour is what I mean lol. edited my original post.

 

Technology! I hope EVs don't have glitches!

Don't have any bloody clue on how many cars can be filled in one hour. But, probably more cars can be filled then EVs can be charged on one charger in an hour.

 

We've been pointing out the co-exist for awhile now. Some people just didn't like the schedule, despite the fact that market realities alter plans along the way. It's the same end-state regardless. No one technology/implementation can serve everyone.

 

A 4 slot super charger can service about 4 cars an hour, 100 cars a day depending on how much they fill. In higher traffic areas they add more slots or higher power.

The highest hydrogen throughput station becing built in california can service 350 kg/day and 2 cars at once, about 90 vehicles a day. These are all demo stations. They likely will be upgraded if higher volume is needed. Out of the first 57 there are only 7 of these higher throughput stations. The rest are between 25kg-200kg/day. The 25kg stations take about 30 minutes to be ready for the next car. I hope we stop building those.

 

The best stations being built in California are Type A that prechill to -40C. Their nominal fill time is 7 minutes for 4 to 5 kilograms. Three minutes is possible under the right conditions, but so is 15 minutes.

Transferring gases is no where near as simple as transferring liquids. In the latter case, you just turn on the pump and go. For the former, you have to account for pressure and the temperature changes that go along with it. Which is a big deal for hydrogen, because it will ignite if the compressing heats it up too much. So a hydrogen station compresses the gas into a tank to a higher pressure than the car's tanks. This tank is chilled to keep the heat build up from slowing the compression process.

Everything is dandy for the first car to fill from this tank when it is full. After that first car, the pressure has dropped in the tank, and it will tank the compressor time to refill it. If it arrives during that time, the second car won't fill as fast as the first one. During a rush of customers, which is a common occurence for a gas station, that tank can get drained to the point where it will 15 minutes or longer to fill a car. Assuming the equipment can still fill cars when the tank is empty.

That is only when the fill tank starts full and cold. If not, the hydrogen will have a bottleneck of customers as the tank recharges.

I don't exactly how long it will take for any given station to recharge that tank, so cars per hour for a station isn't something easy to come by. The stations are rated by kilograms of hydrogen per day in the case of those making hydrogen on site. The biggest might do 50kg, which means they could fill a dozen cars over a 10hr day.

A station supplied hydrogen from off site might be able to fill 100 cars per day. Most of these stations only have 4 pumps. So while they can fill more cars compared to an equal number of chargers, the chargers cost a lot less to install, and there will be more of them for the same investment.

High end, a Supercharger costs Tesla $60k. Locations have 8 chargers normally. We'll round up to $500k total. Low end, a hydrogen station was suppose to only cost $1mil for 4 pumps. It's more, but we'll use it. Using a nominal fill time of 7 minutes, that station could fill 34.3 cars in an hour. If we ignore the fact that the fill tank would be losing enough pressure over that time period to push fill times into the fast charger range. Considering the stations are measured in kilograms or cars per day, it is very unlikely that the pumps could keep up with that many cars coming through at once.

For a $1mil, we can install at least 16 Superchargers. They can charge 16 to 24 cars in an hour depending on how much charge the cars take. While less than our ideal, doesn't exist, hydrogen station, that number can be sustained for every hour of the day. So they can easily 2 to 3 times the cars in the day that our best hydrogen stations can do.

 

I heard it was something like that, hence I asked

So other than if you're one of the first couple customers, hydrogen could be a real slow experience. Doesn't say that in the marketing.

And it's expensive to install. But hey, it's the future init.

 

In 50 of the first 57 stations planned in california, if you are the 3rd car to arrive its going to take awhile. If you are the 50th to arrive that day, you better find another stations because they probably won't have hydrogen for hours or until tomorrow. These aren't technical challenges, but problems with claiming you can build stations without very high government subsidies. You could for instance put three of the linde fuelers and 3 pumps and 6 nozzles in a station and get 1050 kg/day, similar to a gas station. This would probably have 1 large low pressure stainless tank, and 3 of the higher pressure chilled tanks, one for each pump. then you could fill the larger low pressure tank with trucked in hydrogen when it needed it, while the 3 pumps each kept pumping from their high pressure tanks. But they want to pretend these things are cheaper than they are, so smaller capacity it is.