VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

i was behind a real stinker this morning. must have been compliant.

 

Source: Public Relations Hits Keep Coming for Volkswagen | TheDetroitBureau.com

The fallout for Volkswagen is spreading behind its diesel-powered vehicles as a major automotive publication announced today it will not consider any VW or Audi vehicles for one of its major awards.

Ward’s Communications said it won’t be allowing any of the maker engines to be part of its annual 10 best engines competition. The automaker just gave back its car of the year award last week and it’s likely this is just beginning for the automaker.
. . .​

The article goes on to list how many other awards have been 'returned.' So are these auto publications going to retro-award the Prius that lost to the cheater? . . . Oh I don't know but had already put them on my sh*t list. Doing the right thing, being honest, not something we've always come to expect from some auto prosti-writers.

Bob Wilson

 

From Green Car of the Year Wiki:

2009 — Volkswagen Jetta TDI Clean Diesel[6] (Rescinded [7])

The other four finalists were the BMW 335d, the Ford Fusion Hybrid, Saturn Vue 2 Mode Hybrid, and the Smart Fortwo.[6] In 2015, VW admitted their diesel line from 2009-2015 was designed to correctly limit nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions only during static testing.[8][9])​

2010 — Audi A3 TDI Clean Diesel[10] (Rescinded [11])

The other finalists were the Honda Insight, the Mercury Milan Hybrid, the Toyota Prius and the clean diesel VW Golf TDI.[10] Like the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta, the winning 2010 Audi and the 2010 VW Golf were diesel vehicles that Volkswagen admitted in 2015 were designed to limit NOx emissions only when being emission tested.​

2010 winner should have been the Gen3 Prius.

2009 winner should have been the Fusion Hybrid but it also cheated EPA MPG rating.

Honestly engineered Prius got lost in the cheats.

 

The first generation Fusion hybrid also cheated on EPA?

 

No, I thought that was the Gen2 Fusion hybrid. Then it deserves it.

Two diesels robbed two award from the Power-spilt hybrids.

 

Ford called it 'a math error'. The emissions were OK but the window MPG numbers were off. About the same time Hyundai or Kia (or both) had modified the test protocol that gave bad numbers too . . . exceptionally low.

Bob Wilson

So this is what I posted at a TDI forum:



Apparently VW (and others) have been actively spreading a lot of false information about the Prius versus the TDI diesels. Sad to say, we've learned VW committed a fraud since at least 2009 and we are sorry for this. Diesels did not deserve this fraud nor their owners. But it also reveals the long standing efforts by professional liars to mislead about the Prius. This posting is an attempt to bring facts and data.

No, we are not interested in "capturing" TDI owners. Rather, we want to address the FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) that these professional liars have been spreading. If you prefer to spread NOx with a high performance TDI, go ahead just as VW wants you to do. As an owner of two Prius, I don't care.

ABOUT THE PRIUS

It is not a perfect car. The monocoque body has been too flexible since 2004. The 2004-09 Prius have after-market, body stiffener plates. This is not a car for precise steering.

It is also has average acceleration. The traction battery torque comes on instantly but after about 30 yards, the car fades. Now 30 yards is enough to beat the light into the best lane but others will reach the next light first. The Prius is not a street racer BUT fast enough to get the best lane.

ABOUT THE ENGINE

The power-stroke expansion ratio is 13:1, close but not in the diesel range. Yet this means it has higher energy extraction than any other gas-only car. This balances the NOx emissions while achieving excellent thermodynamic efficiency.

The Prius engine trick is leaving the intake valves open during part of the compression stroke pushing part of the charge back into the intake manifold for the next cylinder intake. This means the true compression is 8:1 allowing use of affordable, regular gas. Because part of the fuel-air charge is pushed back into the intake manifold, it is mixed better than any gas-only car. It also means the energy lost compressing the charge is less than a diesel, another energy saving.

In contrast, a diesel has a significant requirement for the starter and battery. Even then, some of the older diesels needed a pause in cold weather before driving to warm up the cylinders. In contrast, the Prius starts the engine in less than 200 ms. When warmed up, even faster.

ABOUT THE TRANSMISSION

Many do not understand that the traction battery is part of the transmission and not a separate drive system. This means the engine with this transmission will always match to the load. Best of all, there are no clutches . . . none.

There was a patent case ruled against Toyota but it was because micro-processors are used to manage the transmission operation. That patent has expired.

As for the traction battery, it is part of the transmission, the electronic shift mechanism. We have found perfectly working Prius with 1/3d of the traction battery capacity still running. Best of all, anyone who understands basic electronics can rebuild the traction battery and get a better car.

SUMMARY

If you decide to try the Prius, buy a used one with some warranty remaining. You might find it does not meet your expectations, so sell it. Understand the Prius is not for everyone. Try it and if you like it, more modern ones are available. But minimize your risk by starting with a used one.

Avoid the 2001-03 Prius unless you want to learn about hybrid technology as an applied engineering course. This is not for technically 'light-weights', only serious engineers need apply. We have one and are very happy with it but I'm an engineer.

The 2004-09 Prius is a fine functional car with a 1.5L engine. It is best for non-technical car drivers yet offers some interesting options for the skilled. The 2010-current Prius will soon be much more affordable and we have one too.

The 2016 Prius is not available until December/January. NEVER buy the first model year in a strange technology. Wait at least two year (like we will) and let the 'pioneers' work out the initial bugs.

Bob Wilson

 

Have you gotten any response yet? Let me guess, they are probably ranging from sarcastic to down right dismissive? I am hopeful I'm wrong given what I had to endure 3 years ago... Gladly the most dismissive dude has left the company, two were very surprised by the emission scandal and the vw-lover of all don't even drive a diesel but has kept very quiet about this. Embarrassed?


SM-G900I ?

 

I have no expectations. Rather, I looked for an obscure location and then reported my post to the moderators.

I really don't care what happens as much as I've made an honest attempt to share insights. The technical and ethical challenge is theirs, not mine.

Bob Wilson

 

Fair enough.

Oh yeah, that vw-lover did said to all of us: "... just think of the dude who wrote software to fool the regulators for so long, brilliant!"

I guess haters gonna hate and staunch lovers gonna love no matter what happened. We can't change the world. God helps us...

SM-G900I ?

 

There are plenty of EPA haters out there and one doesn't need to be a V-dubber... have you been to the parts of the US where ordinary peeps think the Fed Government is evil? Some are ignorant while others are informed.

Going beyond diesel...

In 2025, the CAFE standard will be 54.5 MPG (with loopholes) and further reduction of emission. Unless battery technology or other alternative technologies take a huge leap in the next few years, you would have to be rich to buy a fun car. One example in trying to improve MPG, various car makers have recently fitted the ZF 9-gear automatic into their cars... full of glitches so far and who knows how much it costs to repair. Another example is forced-induction, where small turbo-charged engines are making their way into entry level cars. Ford is pushing its 2.4L Ecoboost Mustang instead of the V6 version to help achieve its CAFE requirement. At the end, the cost of maintenance/repair on complex engines and drivetrain will always passed to the consumer.

The government tells us how much $$$ we will save at the gas pump with the new CAFE standards. They don't tell you how much it will cost the average consumer to maintain and/or repair these overly complex vehicles.

However, we do have a choice.... drive a reliable toaster-on-wheels, be it a 1.0L ICE, a gutless hybrid/EV or an asthmatic diesel.

God helps us all... indeed.




merged

Very good post...

It takes a bit to understand the passion and in some cases, the nuttyness of VW fanatics... the air-cools and TDIs rank up there. My cousin cares more about his '65 Bug than his BMW X3. My neighbor hauled a rusty VW camper across the country so he and his son can spend quality time restoring it. When asked how much a restored one is priced? He pointed to GoWesty. Along the Central Coast of California, occasionally you'll see foreigners renting VW campers for this part of their California experience.

Tom Hanks' adventure in a Westy

You see... I once met an auto journalist whose job is writing long-term reviews for XYZ magazine. His take on Japanese cars goes something like this...

Regardless of price, the Japanese auto manufacturers still have a hard time giving a car a personality, a soul. They are too conservative, they don't let loose their designers' creativity. They don't understand that vanilla extra fine is still vanilla. They don't understand that quirkiness can be a charm. Their executives are tyrannical about designing a perfectly boring but reliable car. Occasionally, you get a Nissan ZX, Mazda Miata, Toyota Supra or a MR-2... but they don't have a hold on multiple generations.

Maybe the Prius will be one day because there's no denying it is a hybrid icon and perhaps a turning point in the auto industry.

As for stealing, copying, plagiarizing, cheating to improving and innovating, Japan rebuilt its economy to world-class using this strategy and Japanese companies are not innocent and so is Toyota...

Toyota embarrassment as three are charged with Ferrari software theft
Toyota engineers convicted of stealing secrets from Ferrari

I'm not passing judgement; it's just reality. When you're ambitious, the end justifies the means. The robber-barons of our country proves this point very well.... and it's business as usual today. Just don't get caught!!!

For the environmentalists and thin-skinned owners, they will get rid of their TDIs. For those traditional fans, it's just another chapter in VW's colorful history. If Leo DiCaprio is serious about making a movie about this scandal, it might be a collectible for the fans... something to watch with friends and have a few drinks and a few laughs.

Nutty... isn't it?

 

nutty.

 

The best way I found to explain: Prius does not shift gears. Instead, it shifts propulsion systems. Electric for low and gas for high gear. The variable amount of power blended from each propulsion system create the CVT effect.

 

Source: Diesel Scandal Hammers Prices for Both New and Used VW Products | TheDetroitBureau.com

A newly released analysis by used car sales site Autotrader finds that the average list price for VW vehicles overall has dropped by $271, or more than 1%, since the diesel scandal broke a little more than a month ago. That jumps to 4% for the VW Beetle and Jetta diesel models, or $1,110 and $797 respectively. By comparison, Autotrader found that the overall price of used diesel vehicles rose about $227, while the average listing price for vehicles on the site was flat.

“When you consider the fact that there are more than 100,000 VW vehicles for sale on Autotrader right now, a price shift of this magnitude in just over a month is significant,” said Autotrader Senior Analyst Michelle Krebs. “It demonstrates the uphill battle the brand faces to regain the trust of consumers, and the challenge this presents for dealers.”​

I take no joy in this. The VW diesel buyers were victims of the fraud. But as the article pointed out, it is a buyer's market if you've ever been tempted.

Bob Wilson

 

From a start on Sept 18th, the main thread on this topic in the TDI forum has just passed 10,000 posts and is about to hit 1,200,000 views. There are also numerous supporting threads.
TDI (Diesel) Emissions - TDIClub Forums

I've sure not read everything but what I have read has been interesting in one way or another.
Some very interesting and informative posts. Also some that reveal good or bad things about the writers.

We should be glad that we don't have a topic of similar interest!

 

otoh, there were many victims of bernie made off. but in the end, it was their greed that drove them to him. the same is true for vdub drivers. they wanted their cake and eat it too, while everyone else was wondering how it was possible.
what were the diesel experts around the world thinking about vdubs 'miracle breakthrough'?

 

Over in Autoline Daily, someone asked if their gas cars are OK. I was briefly tempted to point out:

Oh no, a bank robber would never rob a liquor store or gas station.​

But I figured the irony would be lost.

Bob Wilson

 

I hope the real lesson gets across.

There is a huge value in low emission.

 

Difference between gasoline and diesel emission controls is that the gasoline side of is a more mature technology for personal cars. Plus, gasoline spark engines don't natively run under the conditions(lean with heat) that favor NOx formation.

 

gasoline is a whole other problem.

 

The problem is we all want our cake and eat it too. As long as we insist on enjoying personal transportation as it relates...we "all" contribute to pollution. Doing it a little less than your neighbor is just splitting hairs. Industry, and the rewards of it...are the real problem we face.