VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

did you really?

 

Lee Majors? Heather Thomas? nice!

 

'this time we mean it'.

 

Well I did have to turn up the squelch two notches.

Bob Wilson

 

The People's Car

For the people, of the people!

 

WATCH OUT!!! The scoops are coming, the scoops are coming!

DBCassidy

 

Der Fuhrer reacts to VW's scandal...

 

Also in Italy. Driving a lot in european cities makes the DPF/FAP filter to clog so much that regeneration doesn't work and it has to be replaced. That's lot of €€€€, so many just exclude it. In Italy the emission inspection is every 2 years, but it is made by common mechanics with a special license from the government and certified equipment, they used to simply record the values of another car ... (and take the money for making the tests). For this reason starting from this year the test is made with an additional camera recognizing the license plate and taking a pic of the car under test. I'm curious of how they'll cheat now.

 

wow! i don't usually watch video's, but that was riveting. very well put together, good man. calling out the pampered auto writers!
his definition of a 'crime against humanity' should have applied to wall street 8 years ago as well.

if, as he says, 'volkswagon is producing more bull$h!t than vehicles, maybe toyota can use it to fuel the mirai.

 

Corruption eh?

Here cheating on the safety & emission (MOT) test did go on about 20 years ago, but they clamped down hard. Spot check with a car, take it away and check it again, if it would fail then the test centre could and would lose their licence. It's all computerised and timed etc. It's not worth them cheating any more. They make good money doing it honestly and the risk of losing that business isn't worth it.

 

It is likely that California will mandate the recall and probably a significant number of CARB states. California at 25% of the USA population suggests 0.25*48000 ~= 120,000 repairs. We already know only a small fraction may be fixed with a software patch.

Based upon the 'plan' today, in just the USA:

• 325,000 (67%) - major rework requires new hardware, 10 hours, over night
• 90,000 (19%) - major rework requires new hardware, 10 hours, over night
• 67,000 (14%) - software patch, 2 hours

If we project these ratios to 11 million VW diesels world-wide, it does threaten the existence of VW.

Bob Wilson

 

Are you saying CA is 25% of VW population? Because CA is 11% of US pop, about 30% of hybrid sales, about 55% of plug in sales.

 

The ratios are different in Europe. Right now, it's estimated that 3.6 million European cars will need new hardware.

 

You're right, my 25% was based upon earlier understanding that California is 25% of the USA car market. So I'm OK with any number between 11% and 25%. Better still, see if there is a VW diesel count by state or California.

Bob Wilson

 

hmm I don't think CA is 25% of car market ...let me check...until recently it was 25% of Prius market, now closer to 30%.

 

Yes, four years of a steady paycheck, good for a freelancer!

 

According to Horn's testimony to Congress, the Gen 3 cars (EA288, 2015 model) will just require a software flash, as will the Gen 2 cars (2012-14 Passats, EA189 with SCR). The Gen 1 cars (2009-2014 non-Passats, EA189 engine, no SCR) will have SCR systems added after the fact; given the service competence of the average VW dealer, retrofitting a major system will be a nightmare. The Gen 3 will be done first, then the Gen 2, and the Gen 1 cars may not be approached until late next year (or later). CARB will force the update (as may many CARB states) but most states won't. Your 25% estimate might be right for all the CARB states combied, maybe a bit higher, but there will be significant non-compliance elsewhere and EPA says they won't force owners to get the fix. For the expensive Gen 1 repairs, by the time they're implemented it may be cheaper for VW to buy back 7-8 year old 2009's and 6-7 year old 2010s. Standards will differ in each country, we don't know yet if a software reflash will meet compliance for model-year-current NOX standards elsewhere. I don't think VW's going under.

From my perspective with a low mileage manual 2012 Jetta Sportwagen (Gen 1), the car can't be sold without taking a major valuation hit (most VW dealers won't even take them on trade, and most non-VW dealers just laugh) and VW won't have a fix out for a year or more. It looks like I'll be driving it for a lot longer than I'd planned.

 

Thank you!

You have my complete sympathy!

The 'wagon' versions and Golf are nice rides but you've been whacked by the VW fraud. I'm not posting to suggest eating the loss nor suggest an alternative ride. Rather, you've correctly identified that VW has moved their customers towards the tribe of 'driving until the wheels fall off.'

I've always been a "wheels fall off" owner (The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay poem by Oliver Wendell Holmes provided by Legal Language Services). I wish you luck. The sad thing is you, like me will see new, wonderful technology, pass you by. I may go with a 2017-18 Prius but it had better come with the accident avoidance technology that Toyota overpriced in the 2010.

I am happy you visited our little nook in the network. I would not (could not) visit others beyond the 'green human' group who have really been screwed by VW. Imagine an advertising agency who just discovered their biggest client and campaign was for . . . VW. I am truly sorry for the victims of VW's fraud, their former customers (and employees.)

Bob Wilson

ps. In 1985, three GE employees of Space Division committed time card fraud. It was revealed after we had won a major Navy contract for Automated Test Systems. It meant we could not compete for the follow-up Army contract . . . HP won. Yes, the same HP whose former manger is running for her next job. So I've been up close and personal with corporate fraud.

Today, automated test equipment systems are still screwed up because of these three individuals. So I have unusual insights . . . and ANGER . . . about what happened.

 

First off, I think "Steenman Associates" conducted a fair comparison of a 2009 Prius and 2009 Jetta in their "Portland to Portland", 8000 mile drive. They found about a 1 MPG difference, less than 0.5% difference, even after driving the cars at 'Interstate' speeds. They learned something even they didn't know. Then September 18, they learned VW had cheated on "clean."

I tried to give them a 'heads up' to fix their web site but nothing . . . So I just sent a note to one of their primary backers. I didn't do it to be mean as much as to encourage them to 'do what Jesus would do.' Perhaps they will consider what Jesus taught me or not.

I don't want them to take down the Portland-to-Portland site as much as put a disclaimer, just quote what VW already said about the "clean" diesel. The fact that the end results after 8,000 miles were less than 0.5% difference, just post the final numbers, would be enough.

As for the multiple, 2009 YouTube videos, I suspect the original posters have 'moved on' and can not take them down. So the current comments, are priceless . . . and VW can't do a d*mn thing about it.

Bob Wilson

I am no fan of Consumer Reports but occasionally they do good, original work:

So Consumer Reports decided to put a 2015 Volkswagen Jetta TDI and a 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI to the test. To activate the car’s cheat mode, they pumped the accelerator pedal 5 times while the ignition was in the “on position” but the engine was off. To avoid being “kicked out” of the cheat mode when the car noticed the rear, undriven wheels spinning, CR simply unplugged the rear wheel speed sensors. Simple as that. Cheat mode activated.

They ran their standard Consumer Reports drive cycle. This involved a city traffic simulation on the track and a 65 MPH highway run on the local highway.

Fuel economy numbers were determined by taking fuel readings from a flow meter and averaging MPG numbers in both directions to account for grades and wind speed, and tests were run several times with different drivers to guarantee consistency.

Here are the numbers: On the 2011 Jetta TDI, 0-60 times increased from 9.9 to 10.5 seconds but the 2015 Jetta’s acceleration numbers were unaltered.

But the biggest changes occurred in fuel economy. Especially on the highway where the 2015 Jetta’s MPGs dropped from 53 to 50 and the 2011 Sportwagen’s plummeted from 50 to 46 MPG.​

Source: Consumer Reports Finds How Fuel Economy And Performance Drops When VW Diesels Stop Cheating

• 10.5 sec 0->60 - past data points from Consumer Reports suggest this is ~15 points in their 'score'.
• highway - guess a lot of past magazine reporters need to . . .
  
• city - where is it?? My single biggest complaint about Consumer Reports is their undocumented 'City' numbers.

Found another source with more details about how Consumer Reports keeps the cheat mode working:
How the VW diesels perform in cheat mode

Consumer Reports was able to find out, tapping into what it believes is the cheat mode. By turning the car to accessory mode, flipping on the hazards, and tapping the gas pedal five times, CR was able to defeat the auto-engaged traction and stability controls, which it believes activates cheat mode. The safeties will reengage if it detects the rear wheels spinning, so the next step was what CR called "a hack." The team unplugged the rear wheel sensors, so the car's computers couldn't tell whether the wheels were spinning. By the way, don't try this at home.
​

Although a clever approach, a first-order test, there is always a risk of a partial engagement. We really need to have the "fixed" VWs. Sadly, CR did not have an emissions tester in the exhaust pipe to measure what is coming out. Furthermore VW mentioned making hardware changes to the earliest two models and there lies a risk of impacting 'back pressure' as well as other engine operation modes.

Bob Wilson

ps. Here is the Consumer Reports YouTube report: