Saturn Vue hybrid

I have to agree. These other manufacturers need to recognize the hybrid as a "new product" and not as a "line extension" of an existing product. That's what the Prius is - a new product. And that is why I question how successful the Camry Hybrid will be. If I was marketing this product (Camry Hybrid), I'd be promoting the Camry Hybrid as a line extension from the Prius and not as a Camry line extension. Actually, I think that is how many of us Prius owners or with aspirations to be a Prius owner view the Camry Hybrid. But will John Q. Public?

As I said elsewhere, I think the mindset is that the hybrid version may help sell a few more Saturn Vues rather than thinking in terms of building a hybrid market.

 

Ok are you sitting down? :blink: youll need to sit down for this one...

Green Line Hybrids to be Value Oriented

Saturns restructuring has been in the news over the past month or two. New vehicles, such as the SKY roadster and RELAY minivan have taken GMs customer-friendly brand into uncharted territories, while staples such as the VUE compact SUV and ION compact sedan and coupe have kept the brand in business. With plenty of other cars just around the corner, such as the European-themed AURA midsize sedan and a larger crossover SUV dubbed Outlook, Saturn officials have just announced a new plan which will help raise the profile of this satellite brand.

Saturns general manager Jill Lajdziak announced in the annual Management Briefing Seminar that the brand would be launching a lineup of hybrid vehicles starting mid-2006. To be called "Green Line", the name is a clever spin on the "Red Line" nameplate used for sporty versions of Saturns VUE and ION. No doubt, the square chromed badge used for Red Line cars will be identical, except for a green stripe replacing the red stripe.

The first vehicle to wear the "Green Line" badge will be the VUE, slated to arrive during model-year 2007.

According to GMs Executive Director of Hybrid Powertrains, Larry Nitz, the Green Line system for the VUE will be a "mild hybrid" system. The system has been described as, "a very high value hybrid, as close as a hybrid to be to a bolt on system," which will help keep prices reasonable. On top of the standard gasoline-powered motor, the "mild hybrid" system will use a high-power 42-volt all-in-one starter-alternator-motor for electrical assist.
It is the heart of the system, and could also be used to restart the motor, should Saturn decide to give it an auto-stop feature. In total, the VUE Green Line is expected to deliver a fuel savings of around 10 percent, when compared to four-cylinder FWD equipped models. While theres no word on which gasoline powertrains will be used, it is expected that the electrical components will be mated to the 143-hp 2.2-liter Ecotec inline-four with the choice of a five-speed manual or four-speed automatic. The now-defunct CVT gearbox will stay out of the picture.

Though a 10 percent decrease in fuel consumption does not appear to be that great an improvement, it fulfills the objectives of the "mild hybrid" claim. GMs system is said to deliver 80 to 90 percent of the hybrid benefit at 10 to 20 percent of the cost. As it stands, the 2006 Saturn VUE is one of the most affordable compact SUVs on the marketplace with a starting price of $17,390; the addition of a hybrid system with an estimated cost of $1,500 to $2,000 would still undercut its main rival, the Ford Escape Hybrid by some $4,000 or so. Thats a price gap large enough to strike fear in the eyes of Ford execs and salespeople, plus potentially put a hefty dent in the sales of the Escape and Mercury Mariner hybrids.

And if you havent already heard, Saturn is giving the VUE a facelift for 2006. Aside from sticking the new corporate grille between its headlamps and tidying up the tail, it offers more standard equipment, optional hi-fi stereo, On-Star onboard telematics and dual stage front airbags, which helped it earn a five-star NHTSA crash-test rating (see new vehicle reviews section in this website: 2006 Saturn VUE PreVUE).

LOL Bolt on System......

Ok thats it you can stand up now

 

hmm it tried to dbl post on me..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paflyfisher @ Apr 23 2006, 05:09 AM) [snapback]243911[/snapback]</div>

you will notice in the Camray Hybrid ads on TV, Toyota is using the Hybrid Synergy Drive badging and logo as the way of differentating the two lines. Just as they do with the Prius, HSD is Toyotas copywrited hybrid line of vehicles as you will see in the Hylander hybrid it's HSD and soon to be Tundra HSD etc.

 

Isn't it really upsetting to see a once great manufacturer go blindly thrashing around the mill, trying real hard to not change from dinosaur days while giving lip service to an all new era? While business has an economic backbone, it sure seems like a new design from the ground up for the 21st century is what this company needs on almost all their products. They are losing money on every car they produce (if you look at their bottom line). Since that's a given, why not continue that trend a few more years while plowing resources into top-o-the-line engineers and equiping them to face a new day instead of paying dinosaur managers and CEO's a total of BILLIONS to keep things the same by protecting their existing turf. If all this is so evident to me, (and many on PC) surely they can get from A to B themselves. I see more gumption and excitement for living from the pre-schoolers on my block than I do from the 'adults' at GM. It's sad to see GM going down so spectacularily and it's so easy to see parallels to the USA in general going down with the same boat, which is no suprise since the captains of industry also run the country, just as inefficently and with such stark lack of future vision.

 

I think it is really funny that GM adds "Vue Green Line" and they think that makes it environmentally friendly. Like adding the word "green" makes this car a stellar enviro friendly vehicle.

I like the idea that when the car is stopped at a red light or stop sign, the engine stops, then kicks back on when the car starts moving. That will help a wee bit.

Kind of like putting food in green packaging and calling it healthy. I laugh when I see bacon in green colored packaging and they try to pass it off as 'lean'.

 

So, a SUV rated for 28/32 which costs 22K from GM means they don't get it?

How about a SUV rated at 31/27 (or whatever the HiHy gets, I know it's less than the Vue) which costs 35K? I'd say that's evidence that Toyota doesn't get it.

 

Actually, I think this vehicle makes perfect sense from where GM stands. They havn't spent the time and money researching and developing hybrid technology. They know that they blew it by sitting on their hands so now they have to play catch-up and get their name out there. The only way that they can do that right now is with this sorta vehicle. It's not the most elegant thing in the world but it's something and I bet that it's going to be much more successful than the other hybrid SUVs on the market. This is probably one of the few good decisions that GM's made recently. Hopefully they'll do this sorta thing across the board. I'll take a 10% increase in the fleet's FE any day of the week. We desperately need to get there and anything that's a step in that direction is a good thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 23 2006, 12:05 PM) [snapback]243975[/snapback]</div>

Highlander-Hybrid was not configured for optimum MPG. That was a rather blatant attempt to mislead. Of course, we already know how much you like to defend the "assist" hybrid design. If Toyota would have wanted that first model of Highlander-Hybrid to favor MPG, they would have used the 4-cylinder engine instead. In fact, they would have used the very same one that is now available in Camry-Hybrid. But they didn't. In other words, they get it much better than GM does. Rather than making SUVs most efficient first, they are instead emphasizing the technology being used in hatchbacks & sedans.

GM's problem is that they place far to much attention on short-term products. That's what they don't get. The "assist" hybrid design simply does not support augmentation well. The passive electrical system would make it entirely dependent on a plug and the inability of engine & motor to work independently would limit what could be achieved. Those shortcomings don't exist for the "full" hybrid design, which use a persistent electrical system, a second motor, and a Planetary-CVT.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Apr 23 2006, 02:28 PM) [snapback]243993[/snapback]</div>

Well, HiHy should have be configured for optimum MPG out of the gate. It seems like the market has agreed with me on that.

And I don't prefer any hybrid system. Like any good engineer, I prefer whatever gets the job done most efficiently. And right now, putting aside the fact that I own a Prius, I see very little difference in the the efficiency either IMA or HSD achieve.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 23 2006, 02:02 PM) [snapback]244002[/snapback]</div>

Seems, perhaps. But not really.

Remember before then?

There was a massive amount of hybrid power disbelief, so much so that it was impairing the market. The number of people were under the misconception that the technology could never be fast or used for large vehicles was undeniably the majority. And of course, the anti-hybrid took heavy advantage of that.

So both Toyota & Honda set out to prove them wrong.

Now that they have, those doing after-the-fact analysis have a very hard time trying to figure out why they would ever do such a thing. In other words, that effort was so incredibly successful that some just cannot accept the fact that the proof was ever needed... which is an absolutely fantastic endorsement. That's the best kind. If looking back requires some to ask why there was any resistance, you clearly did a a very good job of implementing change.

 

They ought to call it the SILVER(ado) line. That way people know it's NOT a TRUE hybrid.

I think Toyota's marketing is spot on. Sell the HSD.

 

News flash,

YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!!

First of all please enter the real world. Normal average everyday consumers really don't give a rats nice person about hybrids, they really don't - and quite frankly, the average American can't run out and drop $25-$35K on a brand new hybrid like the Prius of Ford Escape, let alone the Lexus. Most people I work with know next to nothing about hybrids, and are not inclined to buy them. Most people I know, absolutely MOST are not interested in small efficient vehicles. They like 6 cylinder mid size cars. What, you think telling people that you will get 50 mpg will make them willing to buy a car with 110 HP, come on; get of your high falutin' arrogant hybrid happy high horses. If GM can put a car out with a $1000 premium that gets an extra 10-20% MPG so that the consumer may actually save money over the life of the car, that's great, and it will move us a little bit closer to energy independence. By the way, at best it is marginal as to whether or not the Prius will save you any money over the long haul. I did the calculations versus the Matrix, and I would only break even after about 7-8 years.

If GM were to put a very mild hybrid system across there entire fleet, basically just create an idle stop system that shuts down cylinders of their 6 and 8 cylinder models, they could probably increase their entire fleet efficiency by 15% with MINIMAL increase to the cost of the vehicle. Besides the proper application of hybrid technology is in more fuel thirsty vehicles. See the attached spreadsheet for an example. Put mild hybrids in SUV's and get an efficiency gain of 15% and you will save more gas per year then the Prius does.

Personally, I think people who answered this particular forum just don't get it. You drive the Pius and suffer from too much smug. You used this forum as nothing other then an outlet to bash GM (though most of the time they do deserve it). Get in touch with people in the real world who aren’t enamored by all the uber-tech.

And yes, I do own a Prius, I just don’t think it’s the solution to all the worlds problems. Oh one more thing. If someone buys a GM vehicle and uses E85, they will be using less oil then the vaulted Prius.

Get over yourselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Apr 23 2006, 06:50 PM) [snapback]244052[/snapback]</div>

2007 Camry Hybrid mileage: 40/38
2007 Camry 4Cyl mileage: 24/33
Improvement: 29%

All info taken from Toyota's information.

2007 Saturn Vue 4Cyl mileage: 22/27
(Estimated) Green Line Vue mileage: 27/32
Improvement: 19%

So it's about 2/3 the improvement for 1/5 the cost.

And trust me, the figures look worse if I substitute the HiHy for the Camry!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

The way fuel prices have risen over the years, 10-20% will just keep them in pace with fuel prices.

And I disagree with the first part of the above statement. People will start making changes. I drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee (16mpg) for that past 10 years (2 different ones in that time). Last fall, I started looking at alternatives and what my NEEDS were. I decided a sedan or similiar smaller vehicle would be fine. Biggest issue was really cargo space, so when I found the Prius, I was sold. I think you often need to compare a hybrid vehicle to your current vehicle, not just the gas counterpart (when applicable).

So, I think yes, people will give up their 200+HP vehicles for vehicles in the 110HP range as gas prices continue to rise. All it takes is a little knowledge and willingness to change a little. It doesn't hurt to look at the environment and also realize you are doing something to help it. And to quantify that statement, I am far from an environmentalist. I love snowmobiling, jetskiing and many other motortized sports. But that said, If a Hybrid snowmobile was released tomorrow, I'd be the first in line.

I think really the best thing for the environment and our future will be the continuing rise of gas prices. Too many people drive huge vehicles that are unnecessary, simple because they like a big vehicle and they can afford it. As prices rise, people will start to think differently.

I know that I personally will be much more inclined to buy a hybrid when it's time to replace my wifes subaru, assuming there is something that meets our needs. If I can change, so can many others. It's just going to take more time for some than others.

Final comment - In regards to the HiHy - It does get better fuel efficiency and does meet a significant need. If it wasn't for a $40k+ price tag for the model I would have wanted, I seriously would have considered it thought since I do prefer 4WD and do have an occasional need to tow. So it fills this need perfectly.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Maytrix @ Apr 25 2006, 03:03 PM) [snapback]245070[/snapback]</div>

There are polls that suggest that FE is making serious inroads into the psyche of the American car buyer. It only makes sence because we're seeing sustained high prices that are the result of basic economics, not geopolitics/catastrophe, though those things will exascerbate the situation from time to time.

E85 on a large scale is a joke. If you can find it, great. Of course, you'll have to burn more of it until the engines are redesigned to fully take advantage of the high compression properties of the fuel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

Speak for yourself....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

Not according to your spreadsheet. The Prius saves more according to your numbers. And you used $3.50/gallon for the SUV and $2.50/galllon for the Proius to get the cost savings to match.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cosmo @ Apr 25 2006, 03:23 PM) [snapback]245026[/snapback]</div>

Since the average cost of a new vehicle is $20,000 anyway and the cost of gas is close to $3.00 per gallon, the price of the base Prius (which is nicely loaded) is right on target.

In other words, your claim about new purchases is both incorrect and misleading. You clearly ignored the bigger picture too. A goal to "increase their entire fleet efficiency by 15%" is setting the bar way too low and clearly only a short-term solution, since all that would do is keep the demand problem from getting worse.

As for your MPG number crunching, why are you totally ignoring everything else? What about the lower smog-related emissions?