Gaming the system: record EV range!

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by iluvmacs, Jul 27, 2015.

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  1. iluvmacs

    iluvmacs Member

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    Many PiP owners here on PriusChat are aware of the PiP's secret weapon of being able to pulse-and-glide at speeds up to 62 MPH as long as you have EV range left in the battery and are willing to button-mash your whole drive. This past weekend I had a 300-mile round-trip drive ahead of me with no destination charging and I wanted to make "best use" of the battery for the whole trip. The trip was from Madison, WI to Chicago, IL and back, for which I drove the scenic route on US highways, no interstate travel (though there is one section ~20 miles of 65 MPH). Thus, the drive is perfectly suited to be driving in the 55-60 MPH range top speed, plus some slower travel through towns and then into the city. Also note this was a round-trip, so no elevation games at play here :rolleyes:. The route has rolling hills, which is honestly what makes highway P&G work without a constant cycle of speed changes (and annoying whomever is driving behind you). You can't expect this to work on flat land because you would constantly be going up and down in speed significant amounts, which won't go well for traffic around you. My speed on the highway was basically always in the 55-60 range, so nothing silly going on here either. I was honestly driving pretty normally in terms of speed and consistency.

    As it turns out, the strategy of "avoid using the battery for any direct propulsion" worked fantastically. Both directions, I got an even 80 MPG, and I used up the very last of the battery (down to 5 bars in HV) as I pulled into my driveway back home (woot!). Below is the resultant interesting picture though, proving that I got 112 miles out of 300 in EV mode, on one charge! That's a helluva lot of gliding!

    11800493_10104484025199437_7154126922133026674_n.jpg
    (note: it shows 114, but that's because I reset it after filling up at a gas station, then drove 2 miles home and recharged before setting out on the actual road trip)

    My previous record was probably 40 miles of EV distance out of one charge, and one-way (could be a net elevation drop). I never thought it would be possible to nearly triple that, on an even playing field :cool:.

    If you calculate the pure HV "efficiency" of 188 miles from 3.75 gallons, you get an even 50 MPG, which as we know is the EPA rating. Cool, and very impressive for that being the summation of all the "engine on" time.

    Also interesting is that for my first 60 miles driving home (which is where the 65 MPH section starts), I managed 77 MPG and an even 50% EV/HV miles, with NO decrease in the battery SoC (in fact, it was up 2%!). The cool thing about that is that it means a normal Prius could achieve this same result if it were allowed to EV glide at the same high speed range. Neat.

    Next time someone says the PiP only gets 11 electric miles, or 6, show 'em this and say it's also possible to drive 300 miles round-trip on 3.75 gallons of gas and 30ยข of electricity. :LOL:
     
    #1 iluvmacs, Jul 27, 2015
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  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Absolutely amazing! I'm just glad I was nowhere close to that WI IL traffic jam :LOL:
     
    #2 JC91006, Jul 27, 2015
  3. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    I'm a newbie. Can you please describe the "pulse and glide" technique for a PIP to me
     
    #3 el Crucero, Jul 27, 2015
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's hard to do if you have any wall charge available, because when you go to glide, the battery is so strong, it wants to propel the car.
     
    #4 bisco, Jul 27, 2015
  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    I got the glide part down pretty good. Its the pulse that's tough to find the right spot with the gas pedal.
     
    #5 drash, Jul 27, 2015
  6. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Great numbers! What was your average calculated speed?
     
    #6 iplug, Jul 27, 2015
  7. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Its all done with the gas pedal. In gliding the display show no energy being regen back to the battery or being used to drive the car. Its more of a feel since the front wheel essential have no drag or drive and it feels like you are in neutral. Pulsing is where you press the gas pedal no more than 1/3 of the way and only until you reach speed then start your glide again.
     
    #7 drash, Jul 27, 2015
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    again, with a wall charge, when i try to pulse, it stalls at the ev/hv line, and i have to stomp on it which sends the his into the power zone.
     
    #8 bisco, Jul 27, 2015
  9. iluvmacs

    iluvmacs Member

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    I believe the tripometer showed 41 MPH. Lots of stopping at stoplights and heavy traffic in a few areas that slowed me down. Otherwise going the roughly the posted speed limit as stated.

    I'm a little confused what you're doing. Here's what I do... Pulse should be done in HV mode, often at the barrier of the power zone (and in my case for this trip, very often well into the power zone to accelerate from stoplights back to 55 MPH in a reasonable amount of time). Glide should be done in EV mode, with a light foot on the accelerator (or a shift to N) to put the bar at near-zero net power (border of charge zone).
     
    #9 iluvmacs, Jul 28, 2015
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  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    This video should help!



    ... which explains the part about button-mashing. You're constantly pressing the HV/EV button, right? Pulse in HV, glide in EV? What if you glided in HV (but still keeping the HSI near the zero net power)?
     
    #10 Tideland Prius, Jul 28, 2015
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  11. iluvmacs

    iluvmacs Member

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    You got it. Gliding in HV would not have nearly the same benefit (nor would it count as EV miles, of course), because the engine would not shut off in the 45-62 MPH range. It will below 45 (like regular 3rd gen Prius), but to get it off up to 62 you have to use the EV/HV button... and hence also why EV range is required to still be available, even though it's not strictly necessary. As always, Prius is full of quirks. :rolleyes:
     
    #11 iluvmacs, Jul 28, 2015
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i was responding to el crucero, and thinking more about side road driving, not highway. i'm not sure what he was asking about though, i thought just basic p&g, with the car in hv mode.
     
    #12 bisco, Jul 28, 2015
  13. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Thank you soooo much TP. This really explains it all! I think my technique will be a little different since I have a PIP. From what I understand, P&G really doesn't work that well for me until I have used up all my plug in miles. I am going to show this video to my wife who is really getting into the game of "hypermiling."
     
    #13 el Crucero, Jul 28, 2015
  14. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    Thanks for explaining this. I did not know the engine stays on above 45 MPH. Does it also stay on when in HV mode when shifted into neutral? I'll often leave the car in HV mode and shift to N when going downhill, but if the engine stays on then I need to also be selecting EV mode.

    I do switch between HV and EV mode often, using the HV to accelerate and EV to maintain my cruising speed.
     
    #14 Redpoint5, Jul 28, 2015
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  15. iluvmacs

    iluvmacs Member

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    Yes, it will stay on in N if it was on prior to shifting. Any engine starts/stops are prohibited while in N (this provides both opportunities for mistakenly leaving the engine on too long, and workarounds for conditions that would make the engine turn on). The best way to know if the engine is on or off is to look at the MID (I use the HSI display exclusively) and see if the EV indicator "car" is on or off. It can be on or off in either HV or EV mode, so just that setting is not indicative. So say you are in HV mode, engine off at 40 MPH and you glide above 45 while going downhill... the engine will turn on (EV "car" goes off) (unless you are in neutral!). Does not kick on the engine for speed reasons in EV mode until ~62 MPH (again, unless you are in neutral...). The Prius rules are full of exceptions, some fun to play with, and some really annoying.
     
    #15 iluvmacs, Jul 28, 2015
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  16. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    Great tip!

    Can anything be damaged by allowing the car to engine off coast in neutral beyond 62 MPH, and then putting the car into drive? I know the engine comes on above a certain speed to keep one of the MG units from overspeeding.
     
    #16 Redpoint5, Jul 28, 2015
  17. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Amazing.
    Did you notice the 'estimated EV miles' on the display after a full charge following this trip? Must be in the sky.
     
    #17 giora, Jul 28, 2015
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  18. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    My understanding is that that is one of the big risks of coasting in N in a Prius. And in fact, in some states, it is illegal to coast in N for safety reasons (car control issues); this applies to conventional cars (automatic or manual transmissions) as well as our fancy hybrids.
     
    #18 CharlesH, Jul 28, 2015
  19. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    As was said, the regenerated miles in HV glide are counted as HV miles and not EV miles (improving the MPG in HV).
    The pip works like a regular prius in HV mode but completely different in EV mode, example:
    Say you are starting a pulse in HV with 6 EV miles on the display, the car will try all efforts to stay at this set point (EV miles to use later...).
    Now you start a downhill glide in HV mode and regenerate 2 extra miles, down the road, after the glide (still in HV) the car will make all efforts to resume to the 6 miles set point (more electric motor assist) like in a regular prius.
    Now, if you do this glide in EV mode (toggle the button) you still regenerate these 2 miles and they are counted as EV miles, meaning that if you switch back to HV after the hill bottom you are setting a new set point (6+2=8 miles), as if you are telling the car you want all 8 miles to be used as EV later on. And the car will aim to this new set point.
    Sorry for the length, if it is not completely clear it's my fault:)
     
    #19 giora, Jul 28, 2015
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  20. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    As I understand it, Pulse&Glide is a technique to make sure that if the ICE is running, it is running efficiently, at an optimal RPM and providing optimal power, and was originally developed for the standard Prius to increase efficiency.

    I think that this is different from the technique of gaming the EV/HV statistics on the multipurpose display by using HV to climb hills, and EV on downhills, which is not really helping efficiency (MPG on gasoline + miles on a plug-in charge). It just creates some astounding EV numbers on the display. Normally, the PiP will not recharge the battery using the ICE, but using this technique, it is "tricked" into doing so by using the energy from the ICE to climb the hill (as it runs the ICE to preserve the battery SOC in HV mode), and recovering it on the way down with regeneration into the battery (in EV mode). As indicated by the title of this thread, it is just gaming the system. Not that there is anything wrong with that; just don't confuse it with anything meaningful like efficiency.
     
    #20 CharlesH, Jul 28, 2015
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