laughing at the pump today!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 24 2006, 10:47 PM) [snapback]244682[/snapback]</div>

I've read your pages- Well, at least skimmed through them- and it raises a lot of interesting points. In fact, I'm attempting to replicate some of your Prius mods, checked out the hot water pump you mention, and am looking semi-seriously at EV vehicles- One of which would be nearly perfect for my wife.

However, for those of us who currently do not own an EV, and who also live far from CA, EV seems to be difficult to obtain. Any suggestions?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Apr 25 2006, 12:18 AM) [snapback]244755[/snapback]</div>

Thanks envy. This is quite true. I have, however, found that using the "US mix" is an easier argument as folks love to point out that we here in CA do import some dirty electricity. But nobody can argue if we use the average grid mix for comparison. This all brings up another huge point that I should bold. Electricity in the US is produced from >99% domestic energy sources. Where does the energy for our gasoline come from (more and more every day)?

Back when I was using grid power exclusively, I bought "green tickets" that helped to fund/support green power to my provider. With my PV system in place, my car runs almost entirely on PV power. I'm already planning for a PV system expansion for when I'm driving a real PHV.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Apr 25 2006, 01:06 AM) [snapback]244763[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it is hard... likely impossible to total the costs. We must use broad strokes. We must also realize that none of these technologies exist in a vacuum. They all must be compared and contrasted to determine what is better for our situation. Obviously PV cells create pollution in the mfg process. But that only happens once in 30-50 years, and doesn't pollute again until recycle time. A traditional power plant, on the other hand, requires all kinds of energy and pollution to build, and then EVERY kWH that it produces has to be fed with an energy source. Not to mention that there will be energy-intensive maintenance during the lifetime of the plant. Yes, you can find ways to disparage any sort of energy and the production of it - and we need to be concentrating on what is best by comparison. I can only assume and hope that you don't really think that fuelling my EV with PV power is somehow more damaging than using, say, coal that you disparaged earlier. PV does create pollution, yes. But when compared to the other options... well, there's not much to talk about. In my opinion and experience, gasoline is pretty far from the ideal solution for us... even if we can manage to burn it cleanly. Besides being cheap and easy, I see few other benefits to continuing down the gasoline trail.

Ah. Either I misspoke, or you infered something that I had not intend to imply. I do not wish to denigrate the Prius. In fact, I have said many times on these very forums (and truly believe) that the Prius is the best vehicle on the market today. I JUST BOUGHT ONE, for an example of my conviction in that regard. The Prius is a fine gasoline automobile. My point (as I brought up to another poster earlier) is that as smug as Prius drivers are - we're still burning gasoline, and shouldn't be required to do so! Be smug that we're doing much better than our Hummer-driving brethren... and always remember that we can/should/could (and need to!) be doing something even better than the Prius. If we don't push for it, we won't see it. Just like we wouldn't have seen the Prius if there was no demand.

Trust me - there are folks who've managed to squash it before! I have friends who bicycle 30 miles to work every day. They've got me looking like a wasteful pig.

 

Thanks to jb - (nice to see that we can agree on somethings while sparring on others!)
Thanks M. Oiseau - Those are my thoughts too. The Prius is the beginning of what we should have started MANY years ago - even before the wonderful pure BEVs of ten years back.
Thanks Catskillguy - Sometimes I wonder what happened to the humor.
And TonyP.... Wet blanket. Back on topic? Sheesh.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2006, 10:48 AM) [snapback]244882[/snapback]</div>

Darell, you forgot to mention the massive amount of water that thermal powerplants use. Coal and Nuclear, in particular, use tremendous amounts of water to produce electricity.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CyrzB @ Apr 25 2006, 06:44 AM) [snapback]244810[/snapback]</div>

Great question. Difficult to answer.

Production EVs aren't easy to obtain in ANY state these days (well, they were never "easy" to obtain in CA either, for that matter. But that's a whole 'nuther can of worms, isn't it?). Used ones come up every now and again - but a used Rav4EV now sells for about $20k over the original selling price. Nope... no demand there!

We are currently working on a campaign to call local dealerships and inquire about the availability of plug-in vehicles.

The answer to your question comes down to this:
1. Sit back and enjoy what is currently being offered by the car makers and hope they eventually improve their offerings to include vehicles that can free you from fossil fuel use.
2. Search out a rare, expensive, unsupported factory EV (or build your own) and enjoy the high life like yours truly. Building the ivory tower in your back yard is optional.
3. Make an effort to tell your elected representatives and your favorite car maker that there IS demand for vehicles that allow you to avoid using fossil fuels.

The car makers love to point out that there's no demand for EVs. But just how are we supposed to show that demand if we can't buy the product? Go into dealerships with a wad of cash, flash it around and then leave when they can't turn up a car that we want? do not know. We're constantly trying to come up with the perfect way to demonstrate demand without a product to purchase.

And so, to swing back to the topic. I too, laugh at the people at the gas pump. I just mostly do it as I drive by - without also pouring gas into my own vehicle right next to the people I'm laughing at.

OK, I've said my piece about being EV smug. Back to Prius Smugness...

 

I don't feel like laughing.

This chart just reminds me how things were just 8 years ago (my prices were even lower than these.)

I guess Bush finally noticed gas prices came out-of-line with past trends, like something funny was going on. People were laughing but for the wrong reasons...

 

I wish I had an EV too. ^_^ Especially considering that I'm down to 2 fuel bars remaining on the gauge, and a visit to the gas station is on today's schedule. :blink:

 

Just one question-

How the heck did you go 500 miles? My Prius is lucky if it will get to 400!!

 

I've gotten 53.4 MPG last tank. Drove 521 miles! It is possible to do it in this kind of weather. My car has about 3k miles on it already but not totally broken in yet. I drive mostly highway also. I guess it really depends on your commute pattern.

Dennis

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(remaxmanager @ Apr 25 2006, 10:50 AM) [snapback]244926[/snapback]</div>

With careful & practiced driving, I assume. There are people out there who get 500 miles out of a tank on a fairly regular basis. Some have achieved the elusive 600-mile-tank.

I'm at about 420 on mine right now, though it's showing 49.5mpg (was showing 50.2 for a good portion of the tank) and have 2 fuel bars remaining. I would assume that I could squeeze ~450 miles from this tank (multiplying the mpg x 9 as per john1701a), but I'm not about to risk running out of gas or damaging my car to find out. I'll be refueling shortly.

 

wow... I am jealous! No matter how well I drive I never seem to do that well... I also can never squeeze more than 8.5 gallons in at the pump, just wont take it! I do really hate that the first bar can last soooo long, and then bam! You are on the last bar!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ Apr 25 2006, 10:27 AM) [snapback]244907[/snapback]</div>

Do you mean This?

Instead of stepping up funding for alternatives, we'll just allow gasoline (and the production process) to pollute more, so it can be cheaper, so we'll happily use more of it. *sigh*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 25 2006, 11:13 AM) [snapback]244942[/snapback]</div>

Ah... a politician at work... :lol:

This is nothing but talk. When he leaves office, nothing will have changed. :angry:

Even China is planning for Alternative Energy sources, you know we are screwed.

 

i'm desperately looking forward to laughing at the pump... i've just come off a job with a touring theatre company... the tour bus is hauling about a ton and a half of trailer, and gets around 5 mpg, with a fifty gallon tank! i can go inside, purchase and eat a sandwich, talk with the actors, and come back outside before the pump stops. the prius will be a very enjoyable shock.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jmccord @ Apr 24 2006, 11:14 PM) [snapback]244667[/snapback]</div>

You're not the only one that has noticed that. I've seen it too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rancid13 @ Apr 25 2006, 11:01 AM) [snapback]244935[/snapback]</div>

Earning 500 miles from a tank is routine. Earning 600 miles takes a focused effort, dependent largely on ambient air temperature. After a cool wet winter, as air temperatures warm up, I am just now re-approaching 600 miles per tank.