NEED HELP(•Master warning indicator•Brake system warning indicator•Hybrid system warning)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by maverick1970, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    Hi all. I have been reading throughout the Internet trying to get ideas on troubleshooting steps to try. A lot of great information out there but by far Prius Chat is the best!!! Please see below and let me know what ya think and what else I can try.



    Symptoms while driving
    1. Below warning lights come on
    • Master warning indicator
    • Brake system warning indicator
    • Hybrid System warning indicator on multi-information display (MID)
    2. Hybrid battery cooling fan comes on and is very noticeable
    3. Bi-directional indicators on the MID from electric motor to battery stops
    4. Car becomes very sluggish. Gas pedal to the medal and barely moves
    5. ICE begins to run with very high RPMs like if I was at full speed on the highway or something

    NOTE: the VSC indicator HAS NOT come one.



    Background...

    March 19
    • 1st time triangle of death indicator appears
    • 12V AUX battery was reading low voltage with my voltmeter
    • Charged using my trickle charger, cleared codes, and went about my business
    March 25
    • I replaced AUX battery with an Optima YellowTop
    March 30
    • 2nd time triangle of death indicator appear this time with hybrid system warning indicator. CEL was already on from P0420
    • I took to the dealer for diagnostic ($59.95). DTC given P3000 & P0A80. Was told needed new hybrid battery and was quoted $4463.36 (that included labor)
    April 2
    • While driving home the mentioned above symptoms occurred. Barely made it home!
    April 4
    • Removed hybrid battery pack and measured voltage on each of the 28 modules
    • Identified two bad modules
    April 7
    • Order two replacement battery modules
    April 10-11
    • Received new modules
    • Cleaned hybrid battery cooling fan (wasn't that dirty to start with)
    • Removed all modules
    • Installed modules back into the casing pairing them so that similar voltage modules were in the same “battery block"
    • Perform equalization/balance by daisy chaining positives together and negatives together

    April 12
    • Installed battery pack into car and took on a test run
    • During test run, master warning indicator and hybrid system warning indicator came on.
    • Drove home after that happened and removed battery pack to measure the individual modules
    • Rearranged a couple of the modules to better match the voltages
    • Perform equalization/balance by daisy chaining positives together and negatives together
    April 13
    • Installed battery pack into car and took on a test run
    • During test run the very top previously mentioned symptoms occurred
    • On my drive home, I pulled over and shut the car down by pressing the power button. After a few moments (approx. 10 sec), started the car (ready) and the car ran fine. <5 mins, the sluggish conditions recurred (issues 2 – 5 mentioned above). I did this 3-4 times and each time same thing.
    • Once home, took measurements of the individual modules. Measurements indicated 0.01 - 0.02 voltage variation between modules. According to Toyota, the variation between each module in a bank may not be 0.3V or more
    April 14
    • Checked the INVERTER COOLANT PUMP and confirm it is working
    • Checked AUX battery fuse
    • Cleaned mass air flow sensor
    • Cleaned O2 sensor and Air/Fuel ratio sensor

    I’ve ordered a Fotga MINI VCI from Amazon.


    Look forward to getting it and troubleshooting further. I can’t bring myself to take it back to the dealer and pay $59.95 for them to run diagnostics.

    Attached is a spreadsheet showing the different voltage readings of the different modules.
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 maverick1970, Apr 15, 2015
  2. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    170k miles
     
    #2 maverick1970, Apr 15, 2015
  3. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    You never read this from Gen 2 Technical Discussion: Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement | PriusChat
    Its a great read on properly rebuilding a HV battery pack. If you do so, you will realize your mistakes and additional equipment needed.

    1) You are taking the individual module reading w/o a load. Clearly a few more modules give a no load, static reading of being OK, but once stressed, are not OK.
    2) You lack a RC (radio controlled) charger.
    3) You haven't discraged/recharged each module at least twice, which could uncover additional modules that are bad.
    4) Even if properly done like in the above thread, you will be in a continual game of whack-a-mole.

    Did you search on-line for "genuine OEM Toyota parts near Georgia?" Doing so, I found a Toyota dealer in Atlanta, where you might be able to get a GENUINE 100% NEW HV Battery for $2071 w/ CORE Exchange. World Toyota | New Toyota dealership in Atlanta, GA 30341 You need to make sure that this dealer will sell you the battery, as other PC members have found some online dealers won't sell the HV Battery to lay people (not a mechanic), for some lame reason(s).

    A New HV Battery pack is your best bet for long term, worry free, trouble free issues. But your finances and how long you plan to keep the car are additional factors to consider.
     
    #3 exstudent, Apr 15, 2015
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  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    seems like the battery is still the issue. read the codes and they'll point you to the right direction. maybe the modules you bought weren't good?
     
    #4 JC91006, Apr 15, 2015
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    great write up o/p, all the best!(y)
     
    #5 bisco, Apr 15, 2015
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  6. dpeverhart

    dpeverhart Member

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    The voltage test of each module is not sufficient. You need to load test each module. You can get a fairly inexpensive load tester at Harbor Freight and put a 100 amp load on each module. That will most likely show your problem.

    I would also remove the copper connectors from the buss bar on each side of the battery and soak in vinegar, clean off corrosion and reinstall.

    A few other details: Make certain the orange plug is properly in place and the temperature sensors are all snapped into the bottom of HV pack.
     
    #6 dpeverhart, Apr 15, 2015
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  7. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    Thanks to all for the feedback!!!!

    Ironic as it may seem exstudent, that thread you posted is what motivated me to try this. I must admit that I did go into this knowing I was taking a shortcut of not discharging/recharging each module at least twice. I was running against the clock while off work during my kids spring break vacation and wanted to try something in order to get my car running again rather than being dead in the water. However, I may have caught a break based on today's test run.

    I took my car for a test drive today, and after 7 miles, it threw the master warning indicator, brake system warning indicator, and hybrid System warning indicator on multi-information display (MID) occurred again. I pulled over into a parking lot and measured 14V on the AUX battery while in ready. I turned the car off, removed the neg AUX battery terminal, and then removed the hybrid safety plug. Then I proceeded to measured each module. The modules measured 8.16, 8.17, 8.18. I then put everything back and carried on with my test drive.

    Traveled 32 miles and the master warning indicator, brake system warning indicator, and hybrid System warning indicator occurred again. I pulled over and repeated. Same measurements as before. Put everything back and carried on with my test drive.

    Traveled 70+ miles and no alarms. Drove it home, took some measurements and everything was nominal.

    I plan on taking it to work tomorrow which is a 49 mile one way trip.

    -------

    Different this test run compared to the one on April 13th is that I, cleaned the A/F mixture senors, cleaned the Mass Air Flow sensor, cleaned the O2 sensor, added some coolant to the transaxle reservoir because it was below low line, and put the key fob into the slot rather than using the key-less option.
     
    #7 maverick1970, Apr 16, 2015
  8. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    I commuted to/from work today (80ish miles) and no master warning, hybrid warning, or brake warning indicators (knock on wood). :)

    The only indicator I have is the check engine light from the P0420 code.

    Thoughts anyone?
     
    #8 maverick1970, Apr 16, 2015
  9. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Hopefully you will soon have your Mini VCI cable. With Techstream you be able to see what is going on inside your battery in real time.

    To load test your battery with Techstream follow this procedure. Watch the live battery data as the test is done. To get to the live battery data you first must run a "Health Check". The health check will bring up all the trouble codes. Some of the codes with have snowflake icons next to them. Clicking on the snowflake will bring you to the freeze frame data. The freeze frame page is where the sub or info codes can be found. From the health check results page click on the battery category found on the left hand side. The next page will have a link to battery data. The battery data page shows the current voltages of all 14 blocks.

    Charge test : Engine on, set parking brake, car in drive, step on gas and brake fully. Your car will just sit still and charge. Give it about thirty seconds to a minute. The weak module pair voltages will rise faster and higher than the rest.

    Discharge test: Car on and warmed up, engine off, set parking brake, car in reverse, step on the brake, give it a little gas but not so much that the gas engine turns on. The car will sit still and discharge the battery. Give it about a minute. The weak module pairs will drop in voltage faster and farther.

    A good short discussion of this can be found in this thread. Unable to determine the cause of the triangle warning | PriusChat

    The results of the discharge test performed by veggiecar can be found here. Dropbox - Screenshot 2015-02-25 08.40.51.png

    For the Gen II Prius, Techstream starts the module count from the end opposite the battery ECU. This is contrary to what the Toyota manual and most Prius Chat members will tell you. Let the flames continue:eek:.

    Brad
     
    #9 strawbrad, Apr 17, 2015
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  10. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    I received the Mini VCI cable and ran through the charge test. See video.

     
    #10 maverick1970, Apr 19, 2015
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  11. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    How do the values look? I have no errors other than P0420 (catalytic I know).

    Anything else I should try before putting her back together?
     
    #11 maverick1970, Apr 19, 2015
  12. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Good video:). The official Toyota recommendation is to replace a pack that has more than .3 volt difference between module pairs while performing this test. Your pack is just outside this limit but of course you can still get some more use out of it. The ohm readings of your modules seem high. I normally see between .019 to .023 ohm's. I have run this test on dozens of batteries and do not remember seeing more than .023 ohms. I do live in the frozen and flat north where life is easier on batteries. The voltages of pairs 1 and 13 rose quicker than the rest. They also have the highest resistance of .028 ohms. Have your run the discharge test? Pairs 1 and 13 would be the ones to watch. Another line to watch is " Batt Pack Current Value" on the left side of the screen. You were hitting 60 amps on the charge test. Clicking on any line will highlight it in blue. I find it helps to highlight the four of five worst on charge and then watch them closely on discharge.

    I would GUESS that you are not done with your battery problems:sick:.

    Brad
     
    #12 strawbrad, Apr 19, 2015
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  13. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    Well folks my luck ran out. The problem has resurfaced. Battery block 1 low. The variation using the computer is just outside the 0.3 mark. Now that the kids are out of school and not under pressure of needing two vehicles, I am going to go the full route of getting the chargers and following the procedure. Was able to get nearly 4000 miles before the problem returned.
     
    #13 maverick1970, Jun 2, 2015
  14. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    Check it out. I'm in business. I received the power supplies, battery chargers, & banana/alligator clip cables. I now have everything hooked up and on my first cycle. IMG_3589[1].JPG
     
    #14 maverick1970, Jun 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  15. maverick1970

    maverick1970 Junior Member

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    What's up everyone. It has been almost 3 years since I last posted. My car ran great until this week. The original symptoms have returned. I will be working again on identifying the bad cell(s) and proceeding with another battery reconditioning.
     
    #15 maverick1970, May 11, 2018
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice run!(y)
     
    #16 bisco, May 11, 2018
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