Looking to buy a used Gen II, questions about the battery...

if you want to save money, GenII is not a deal at all, when the gas price is so low those days.
Battery will age and fail, reconditioned hybrid battery won't last that long.

 

I appreciate the fan loyalty but the fact is that 8 kilobucks will buy more non-hybrid than hybrid.

Generally speaking, CR looks at model years not how much car you can get at a certain price point.
Besides......if you've been here very long at all, CR has a pretty spotty track record WRT objectivity with the Prius fanatics.

I was trying to answer the OP's question objectively.
If I had $8,000 to spend and the object was more reliability weighted than fuel efficiency I would expand my search to include the usual cast of suspects in the econobox segment.
The truth is, if you buy an $8,000 Prius in a non-CARB state then you're subjecting yourself to some risk for components that might cost more than $1,000 to repair (battery, inverter, regen brakes to name a few.) before the car is done with its collegiate career, as the OP questioned.
If you're going to be using the car for enough years and miles then the Prius might be the way to go and it's a dang dependable car!
If you're just using it for weekend laundry trips back to home base and aren't going to be putting very many miles on the car then the idea is to get through school as cheaply as possible.

The answer isn't ALWAYS a Prius.
It is more often than some people realize.

KBB bears all of this out for the objective searcher.

If the question is: I want to buy a car for under 20K and run it until the wheels fall off, then the answer is more Prius weighted, since Priuses are just about the cheapest cars to own and operate over a longer period of time.

 

all good points. another factor might be a study of a corolla from years 5-10, and whatever prius you could buy for the same price.

on the other hand, right now, corolla's might be selling for more than prius'ses.

 

Thanks but I didn't think we were talking about fan loyalty. CR isn't the only show running a total-cost-of-ownership service (though theirs does happen to put a Prius at the top of each category where a Prius competes). I used Edmunds in this example just to change things up a bit. A quick google for "auto total cost of ownership" finds several more. The Edmunds TCO estimate was based on a five year ownership duration, which isn't that far off for a "collegiate career" investment. (Certainly in my case, the first thing I did after writing my last tuition check was not run out and buy another car; I did that a few years later, so I had owned that car several years.)

This makes me wonder whether you looked at pages 80 to 83 in the April auto issue. "How much car you can get at a certain price point" seems to be a close description of how they have organized the data.

Ok, so if by "here" you mean "on PriusChat" I've been here about 2½ years longer than you have, but I have no idea what that's got to do with the price of bananas. If you think you have some evidence of CR non-objectivity that you believe undermines the math of their TCO calculations or their ability to compile and analyze their massive history of annual reliability survey data, wouldn't it be more straightforward for you to just say what you're talking about?

So was I, and I hope you noticed I didn't end up recommending the Prius unconditionally or for every sort of use. Its advantages are diminished if the amount of driving is very little or in very short trips. And there's the issue of potential expensive repairs, which both you and I have explicitly mentioned.

We are in some agreement there, but the point is, that is a more or less actuarial sort of consideration driven by cash flow concerns. The total-cost-of-ownership services that give the Prius leading ratings are not leaving out the data on battery and tranny replacement rates. They are figuring in all the data they have and finding that, even with those costs when they come, the overall TCO is strikingly low. They are not saying you have to keep the car twenty years for this to be so. At the risk of repeating myself, the Edmunds horizon is five years.

It's possible that the OP will not feel comfortable accepting even a small risk of a $2k expense in the first year or two, and in that case would be perfectly justified in choosing even a car with a higher overall TCO if that cost were expected to come in smaller, less unpredictable chunks. Accepting a higher overall cost for more predictable cash flow is perfectly reasonable, and that's why people finance big purchases, buy insurance, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

The point is, saying "some other car may fit your cash flow and risk tolerance better in your situation" is not the same as saying the other will actually cost less over the years you own it. That certainly could happen, especially if you happen to compare a lucky Corolla and an unlucky Prius, but as data-driven TCO numbers are increasingly showing, you wouldn't get super-rich making that bet.

-Chap

 

It's 10 years old. It might last another 10, but it probably won't.

You're taking a fairly substantial risk. Do you have $3000 in reserve in case the replacement HV battery
fails a year from now or less.

If not, you should buy something newer with fewer miles.

I bought my 2005 Gen 2 four and a half years ago for $7500. It had 134K miles on it. I've put 99K miles of my own on it so far.
Other than a few small repairs, I have not spent much money on it. Original HV battery, brakes, suspension, you name it.

However, it was only five years old when I bought it, not 10.

Consider a 2011 or newer Mazda 2 instead. You should be able to get one cheap that will outlast the 05 Prius easy.

 

Was the battery replaced with a brand new one from Toyota? Or remanufactured? If latter, it probably will fail in 1 year.

Alex

 

Well, I'm sorry we're such a bunch of nay-sayers here, Ramsey.

I still stand that a gen II Pri is a very responsible vehicle choice for a student. Sure, there is risk, but there is risk with any vehicle, new or used. The odds are definitely in your favor, with a vehicle with such positive reliability statistics.

Also, more than fuel prices or complex economics, it's important to get what you like. There isn't anything quite like it. I think it does everything well and is incredibly easy to own. I couldn't imagine owning anything else. I can honestly say I've got my dream car in the garage and I wouldn't trade it for anything, at any price point, even if gasoline was free.

Have you done much test-driving yet? I know that, similar to finding a puppy at the pound, a lot of times the car chooses you. Once you've tried a few out, you'll know. A Prius isn't for everyone (contrary to the commercial), but if it grabs you more than the others, I think you should get one. I find them to be incredibly loyal, kind of like that pound puppy.

I admit it can be a little scary though. Toyota definitely did their homework with these, but the systems are hi-tech and expensive. You might want to take your time and look for a while. There have got to be some around that don't have quite so much on the odometer. I would look for '06 or newer, lower option package examples, especially if they were garaged (look for crystal-clear headlamps, although I guess they have kits that do that now).

How about:
2006 Toyota PRIUS 91,000 Miles, One Owner, Clean title, Excellent.
Toyota Prius 2008-$7800
2006 Prius (fully loaded, but decent value)

Not as good of vibes, but possibilities:
2007 toyota prius (may have come from auction--get a history report on this one)
2009 Toyota Prius (darn secret pricing, and may be too wheelie-and-dealy, history report please)

 

If you could find one with a new Toyota batt, I think Toyota gives 12 month warranty, and of course we'd expect 8-10 years service out of a new Toyota batt. That'd be nice.

 

It's usually an individual cell, but that rate increases with time/mileage to some degree.

If you purchase Torque pro and get an inexpensive bluetooth OBDII adapter off of eh4y, you can have it log the battery block voltages/etc while driving to get an idea how healthy the battery blocks (sets of 2 modules. each modules is ~$40-$50 each used) are.

In terms of the modules themselves, they apparently fail over time b/c the cases leak and they lose water from the electrolyte. Eventually, this results in a cell inside the module shorting, and at that point you need to pull the pack and replace the module with the shorted cell.

On the plus side, it's possible to add electrolyte and seal the terminals, but no one's come up with a good way of sealing the hole you need to drill, so those cells will also lose water and need to be topped off periodically.

 

It always amazes me when people on PriusChat recommend a Corolla or Civic as a safer bet when considering high-mileage cheap used cars. Especially coming from owners or buyers of high-mileage used Prii. They rightly point out that the HV battery can set you back a big chunk of change. But so can major repairs on any vehicle. Engine, transmission, these things fail eventually no matter what car you are talking about, but when you're talking about the three cars on our short list, the actual incidence is exceedingly low. That's the best you can do at the outset. My point is that any car can have a major failure, and lack of spare bucks to deal with it is just not a dealbreaker, is it? You need a car, you get the best thing you can within your budget, you do the routine maintenance, and freakin' drive it. You can't predict which car will break first, or how much it is going to cost. The question that you have to ask is, which of those cars is the best by other measures. That's where the choice became clear for me a while ago when I bought mine. Name it - cabin layout, appearance, fuel economy, available options - the Prius was the winner in my car search, and I challenge any naysayer in this thread to say they want a Civic or Corolla right now instead of their Prius. Call me a fanboy if you want, but I say heck no, I never wanted a Corolla or Civic, and I have seriously considered them many times over decades of car shopping odysseys.
My advice is look for as loaded a car as you can in the best cosmetic condition, make a low but realistic offer, and the rest will take care of itself. I got my loaded 2005 with 151k miles at a Toyota dealer last summer, asking price $7k, offered $6k, accepted without counteroffer. Point is, you can shop asking prices significantly above your budget, especially at a dealer, who can make money by financing your car. Gen IIs just can't be beat at the going price, and even though I could have spent even more than that on a car, why should I?
Final note, for shopping, the CarGurus website is worth checking out in addition to those mentioned above. Happy hunting!

 

I think I'd still consider the Prius II - but I'd probably avoid the earlier 2004 models and get a late 2008 or 2009 model if your budget could stretch to it. Before I bought my 2008 Prius "T Spirit" in the UK (the fully loaded version), I looked at Honda Civics - but somehow, the Prius was a better deal. 2 years later and £4000+ saved on fuel bills (UK - we get fleeced with abominable fuel taxes), I'm one happy dude!

All I would say is, try and keep your battery cool during operation of the vehicle by using the AC regularly. Air from the cabin goes towards cooling the HV Traction battery. The AC cools the cabin, that same chilled air ultimately makes a difference for keeping the HV Battery relatively cool during operation. I really do believe it makes a big difference, one that a lot of Prius owners surprisingly tend to overlook.
The AC isn't directly connected to your engine, so will not deliver a giant fuel penalty for being used. If you get a Prius, use the AC - it's literally life support for the HV battery too.

If you live in a really hot area with blistering sunshine, you might also want to invest in tinting your rear windows with a good tint that reflects the worst of the suns radiation. And keep that rear baggage cover in place at all times, acts as a shield against the suns rays getting to the HV battery compartment.

There are Prii II models that have easily done 300,000+ on the original battery, so I wouldn't worry too much about HV Battery operation failure just yet. Having said that, lemons come in all sizes - or car models. A Corolla or Civic can develop nasty faults too!

*If you decide to go for a Prius II after all, do try to get one with all the extras like NAV and 6 CD JBL Stereo - methinks you will appreciate it.

The final decision is, obviously, yours.

 

The service history means nothing. The battery and/or anything else can fail tomorrow. The price is too high and no one currently wants to buy a Prius with the low cost of gas in the US. You might be the only potential buyer they have.

Tell them to call you when they reduce the price.

 

If you do any long distance driving, cruise control is a MUST! Do not buy the 08 until you have tested it during a 10 minute drive preferably in a hilly area to be certain it can maintain a nearly constant velocity.

If they manage to get the cruise control functioning normally again, look for signs that the car is burning oil.

You can tell that it is by checking the end of the exhaust pipe. If it's black with soot, it's probably burning oil.

Unscrew the oil fill cap and look into the cylinder head cover. If you see any discoloration - a light to medium brown color - it's probably burning oil.

Remove the air filter, open the throttle plate, and look into the bottom of the intake manifold after you turn the engine off after a 10 minute drive at 60+ mph. It probably will be dry. Wait one hour and look again after the engine had cooled off. You will see a small pool of oil at the bottom of the intake manifold if it's burning oil.

It's not the end of the world if it's burning oil but it's best if you find out ahead of time so you will be ready to add oil in between oil changes. Some high odometer mileage Gen 2 Prius' burn oil, some don't. Some burn a lot if the owner wasn't checking the oil level periodically. I'm sure the stealership you're shopping at has topped it off to full. You will find out soon enough if it is burning oil if you buy it, most likely after 500 to 1000 miles.

 

What's a bigger contributor to battery failure? Years or Mileage. I'm also looking a 2005 Prius but it has only 73k miles on it.

 

Climate and elevation mainly. Hot and humid is tough on HV batteries. Mountains - same thing.

My employer has a 2008 Prius with 140K miles on it that sits for long periods of time - weeks on end - without being driven. It has been treated like this the past 5 years. The HV battery has been a real trooper. The 12V - not so much - it has been replaced three times. The company car has spent its entire life in SE Michigan - a climate and terrain that a Prius can tolerate well.

If the 72K miles have been in a similarly moderate climate (not too hot) and relatively flat terrain, you should have no problems with the HV battery.

 

I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in something like that, but here's what I did about 20 years ago when necessity pushed me into buying a really hopelessly smoked-in car (really, the DPO must have smoked like a chimney).

I had a friend with one of those hot-water-extractor attachments to go on a shop vac. We hooked that up, put in the special upholstery soap, and just kept going over the seats and carpets pulling more black and gray water out for pretty much a whole afternoon. Toward the end we were saying "wow, really, so that's the original upholstery color!"

There was no joy right away, because the smell seemed about as strong as ever. But it was summer, and all I did was just drive everywhere with all the windows down for as long as it was still practical (into mid-October or so), and by that time there was no noticeable smell and it never ever smelled like a smoker car after that. There's hope!

The cruise control issue is curious because there's not much to it. There's pretty much the cruise switch, the brake light switch, and they're just inputs to the computer that does everything else. Good thing they'll be figuring it out for you.

The price is less than I paid for my Gen 1 at about the same age and maybe 30,000 fewer miles, and I've never felt buyer's remorse. The market price does respond more to gas prices than other cars do. I bought mine in March of '08 and that was the year when in June the gas prices hit $4. I could have sold the car then and there for $3000 more than it cost me, if I hadn't liked it so much.

-Chap