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Prius sat for 2 years

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Frank T, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. Frank T

    Frank T Junior Member

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    Prius Newbie here
    I have the opportunity to buy a '05 with low mileage that sat for 2 years in a garage. 12V battery is dead and the owner said the following:
    -Wheels are locked, car wont roll
    -Key fob drained the 12v battery (found info on a switch under the dash that turns off the FOB search, I assume that is what created the dead 12V battery issue)
    -key FOB dead & doors are locked

    Here are my questions:
    1. I heard there is a regular steel key built into the FOB, how do I get that out of the FOB? Does it just pull out? I assume that key will unlock the doors.

    2. I don't want to start the engine for fear of getting bad gas into the engine. Is there a way to unlock the wheels (I assume just the fronts are locked) so I can get it on my trailer without turning the engine on? Is it like a normal car where you put the key in, turn it one 'click to the accessory position" and the transmission leaver can be moved to Neutral? Is there a better way to unlock these wheels temporarily?

    3. I found a video on how to replace the 12v battery in the truck area. Will the replacement of that battery take care of unlocking the wheels?

    4. Once I get this thing home and get a new battery in it, get the gas drained and replaced, is there a diagnostic check I should run to see if there is anything else I need to look into?

    Ive been working on cars for 30+ years but this is my first Prius. So Im sure some of these questions may sound silly but I want to be sure before I start digging into this.

    Thanks
    FT
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    With an 05 that's been sitting for 2 years, chances are the HV battery is dying or dead. That battery will run you over $3000 if installed by the dealer or you can buy it from the dealer for $2100-$2500. Some people have tried the rebuilt battery route, but many have had problems with the rebuilts after repair. The best option is to buy new.

    For the most part the Prius is problem free but the batteries will be an issue once they get about 10 years old. There are other things that can fail but since the car can't be started, you really are going at this blind and taking your chances.
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    As long as the car's off, transmission in Park, the front wheels won't be able to roll, just rock a few inches. The rotors might also be badly rusted, but the transmission lock is issue one. If you need to roll it without starting it up you'll need to find some way around that. Maybe just have it towed with front of the ground? Or to get it on your trailer maybe wheel dollies under the fronts?

    With the built-in key, on my (next gen) fob, the back of the physical key has a small ring on it, and down the side of the fob is a knurled button: pushing that down a bit releases the physical key and you can then pull it out.
     
  4. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    You can get it into neutral by putting it into ig-on (power button two times without brake) and pressing brake and moving shifter to neutral.
    First you need 12v battery or you can use jumper cables. Jumper cables are easiest to connect to under hood fuse box. Use only battery or shut off car to jump. You may want to remove battery negative from that broken 12v.
    When you get it to neutral you can remove p-con mtr relay and it will stay in neutral.
    Prius tech training has this info and more.
     
  5. Frank T

    Frank T Junior Member

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    Thanks for the quick response guys
    Here are a few questions for clarification:
    1. HV battery dead: I understand the age of the battery could be an issue but how do I tell if its bad? Are there diagnostics in the car for this when I get the 12v battery in it? Or do I just need to drive the car around to figure it out?
    2. If the HV battery is dead (needs replacement) can the car still be driven on just Motor power enough to get me to a garage to replace the HV battery?
    3. Please confirm this is how to get the car in neutral:
      1. Install the 12v battery (or jump it)
      2. Hit power button two times with my foot off the brake
      3. Put my foot on the brake and move the shifter into neutral
      4. Wheels will unlock and the car will roll!
    4. What is the purpose to removing the PCon relay? Again I just need the car in neutral for about 20 minutes until I get it on the trailer. Then I want to put it back in park.
    5. What is the process for getting the car back in park?
    Thanks
    Frank
     
  6. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    1. Age and battery just sitting. You will get warning lights and code for bad hv-battery if it’s bad when you turn it to ready (basically running).

    If you are going to work with Prius you will need scanner capable of reading codes from it. Most of the scanners can’t. Mini-vci is cheap and can do everything but needs laptop (best with xp). You will need code reader because lights alone won’t tell you much.

    2. If it’s completely dead you can’t even get engine to start. If it’s just bad you can but driving might damage hv-battery more (will only matter if you want to try to fix it).

    3. Yes. But then it’s in ig-on and is using 12v down pretty fast.

    4. If you remove the relay it can’t get back to park and will stay in neutral even when shut off. You will need to put e-brake on to shut it off without that relay. You will get message that tells you that park mechanism is broken and you should put e-brake on.

    5. If P-CON MTR relay is in its place (like it normally is) just turning it off will put it back in park or you can just push park button. If P-CON MTR relay is removed you can’t get it to park.
     
  7. Frank T

    Frank T Junior Member

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    valde3
    Thanks for the info.
    Found the Mini vci on ebay between $20-40. Looks like there are different makers and Version (V9.3 or V8.0). any recommendations on which is ok for home owner use on this 2005?
    My HP laptop has windows 7 and my wife has a MacBook Pro, hopefully one of those will work with the Mini vci. I may have an old laptop laying around with XP.

    5. With the PCON relay in place (like it normally is) how do I 'turn the car off'? does hitting the 'park button' turn the car off or do I need to hit the power button? or ? Once I get the car on the trailer Id prefer if the cars wheels were locked so I want to keep the relay in place. I don't want to use the e-brake for fear of locking the brake mechanism (been there, done that, don't want to go back).

    Thanks
    FT
     
  8. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The high voltage battery may be discharged, but this does not harm NiMh batteries if it is through self discharge. They are not damaged in the way lead acid batteries are. NiMh batteries can be stored completely discharged. You may well find it still has a reasonable charge if not it is worthwhile grid charging it before condemning it.
    Any bars of any color showing on the MFD is a good enough charge to start the car. If there are any bars showing on the display and the car starts you can safely let the engine recharge the HV battery to the high blue bar level. Once you have the 12 volt battery replaced do not let the car stand in accessory, ignition on, or ready unless in the case of ready the engine starts this will be some 7 seconds after the car is made ready. Do not let the car stand in neutral with the with the car in ready mode. This risks discharging both the HV and 12 volt battery.
    The fuel tank on the US Prius is well sealed so it is unlikely there will be condensation in the fuel, but a fuel additive would be advised.
    The mini VCI versions are mostly updates for later Toyota/Lexus/Scion vehicles. It can be run with a little work on Windows 7 64 bit it will probably run on W7 32 bit as is.
    Hitting the power button turns the car off, and puts it in park "unless the relay has been removed first" To make the car ready "start the car" press the brake firmly and push the start button "probably best with the fob in the slot at first" even if the car has SKS. I very much doubt the car will start with the relay removed.

    John (Britprius)
     
    #8 Britprius, Feb 26, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  9. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    5. Just pressing power button will turn it off.
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Frank are you in USA? if so what state for warranty rules?

    I just had my 2006 inspected and the rear brakes were still good but too tight not allowing free spin. My inspection guy finally got the drums off to loosen up the brakes. Of course this implies prior years he simply skipped checking my rear brakes which is possible I think. He thinks someone over-adjusted them which is remotely possible I suppose.
     
    #10 wjtracy, Feb 26, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you don't want bad gas in the engine, you'll have to find a way to power up with the 12 volt to get it in neutral, without allowing the hybrid battery to fire the ice. unless it's already too dead to do so.
     
  12. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Sitting in a garage for 2 years sounds bad but you never know... My 2001 Prius sat in a covered garage at a relative's house for 1.5 years without being used (long story). The 12 volt battery was obviously dead and I was sure that the HV battery was ruined also and that the gas would have gone bad.

    We called AAA, the tow truck guy jump started the car, and we drove it 2-3 miles to a mechanic for a thorough looking over. One 12V battery later and it is operating just fine. In my case I had just recently replaced the HV battery with a new one before it went unused for all that time (don't ask...). The 10 year old HV in the 2005 Prius might not survive as well.

    Good luck!
     
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  13. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

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    Letting a car sit is the worse thing you can do to it. I inherited a car (70 Coronet) that had sat in a garage for 3 years. As simple as that car was its amazing all the stuff that had gone to pot on it.

    Tires will have taken a set and have flat spots for sure. They might lossen up with some driving, but plan on replacing.

    Others have pointed out the battery and fuel issues.

    The electrolytic capacitors in the power converter might have degraded a little. These can come back, but don't stop hard (regen) for awhile. This raises the inverter's bus voltage. The caps need time (hours) to regrow.

    Smaller electrolytic and tantalum caps in all the circuits. These can fail with calender life also.

    If you can get this cheap enough to fix and still be a good deal then go for it.
     
  14. Frank T

    Frank T Junior Member

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    Thanks to every one for the great advice. Got the car out of park and "locked' in neutral and it will now roll when pushed! Im moving ahead with purchasing the Prius and be picking it up in the next few days. Ill reporting back my findings once I dig into it.
    Again Thanks to ALL!!
     
  15. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    This is absolutely true. We had a barn find Honda insight that sat for 10 years. The NiMh hybrid battery was fully self discharged. After a 24 hour charge & balance, it fired right up and according the the customer performs better than his other Honda's that have been driven for those 10 years. We also have many snow bird customers who let their hybrids sit for six months each year. Letting the battery sit and self discharge does not damage the hybrid battery. Driving it after without grid charging it first DOES damage the battery. When severely depleted, the cells cannot handle the 50+ amps of charge delivered by the vehicle and will fail within a few months.

    I recommend getting a charger for the car and soak charging the HV battery for 24+ hours before trying to start the car. If you do that the battery will be in the exact same condition (or better) then when the car was parked two years ago.
     
  16. Frank T

    Frank T Junior Member

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    Jeff
    What do you mean by soak charging? I have a good charger that has a 2 low charging settings (3Amp, 15amp). Do I just hook this up to the 12v battery overnight? If so which setting?

    OR can I get the motor started and just let it idle for a few hours without moving the car? Will that charge the HV Battery?

    Thanks
    Frank T
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    he means a grid charger for the hv battery, like they sell in priuschat shoppe. not a 12 volt charger like you have.

    if the hv battery is depleted, it won't start the ice. if it does start the ice, it isn't completely depleted, and the ice will charge it back up as in normal operation.
     
  18. Okinawa

    Okinawa Senior Member

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    I would pass on that one. It is 10 years old and you could get a lot of money in repairs.
     
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Either of those software versions will work. The software is also supposed to be available via the web. I am running Mini VCI on my MacBook Pro, with Boot Camp and Windows 7 32 bit OS. If your HP laptop has Windows 7 32 bit OS that would be perfect, otherwise you can load Boot Camp on your wife's MacBook Pro.

    It is unclear whether viruses exist on the Mini VCI software so I would avoid using that software on a PC used for other purposes such as home banking, email etc.

    Have fun!

    IF you can get the car started, then you can force charge the traction battery by putting the gear selector in D, then pressing hard on the brake pedal with your left foot to keep the car stationary, and flooring the accelerator pedal with your right foot to get the engine to rev up. That will put all of the rotational energy from the gasoline engine into MG1 which will provide power to the inverter to charge the battery.

    If the battery lacks sufficient charge to start the gasoline engine, then you will need to devise some auxiliary means to provide high voltage to the battery for charging purposes. Or you can open up the case and charge the 28 modules individually which is time consuming and painful - but several posters have provided their experiences about doing that here.

    Sounds like the OP wants a project car, so if that is correct then he should be ready to perform some unknown repairs.
     
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  20. Frank T

    Frank T Junior Member

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    UPDATE:
    Drained the fuel in the tank today. Got about a gallon and a half out.(trickled out for about 8 hours) added about 3 gallons of 93 octane. Hit the brake and hit the start button... dash lit up and the center screen showing all the info lit up. Put the car in drive and motor started... BO YAA... HV battery just below 50%... hit the brake hard with my left foot then floored the gas with the right. Screen showed the battery charging... BOO YAA.... stopped at about 3/4 charge. Put the car in reverse and backed out of the garage. LIFE IS GOOD. Drove the car around my property and down the street about a 1/2 mile or so... all good.

    Thanks for everyone's help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!