water useage

When we did a major remodeled of our house 5 years ago, we did a couple of things to conserve energy, use recycled/renewable materials, and use less water. Some have been more successful than others (much like any engineering project); we learned a lot from the failures as well at the successes.

One of the real win-win features has been an "on-demand" hot water system we had installed. You know when you turn the hot water on in the morning, and let the water run for 30 seconds (or longer) while it gets hot? All that water gets wasted, and goes down the drain.

On demand basically puts a water pump in the hot water pipe, with an RF receiver attached to it. You push a RF button in the bathroom, and the pump starts pushing the hot water through the hot water pipes. Wait 15 seconds, turn on the hot water -- and you get hot water.

If I had it to do over again, I might have just put a pump that runs all the time (like most commercial buildings) and continously circulates the hot water. Suspect this is better for the pump -- but it also uses more power. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs....

Even for some of the less-successful things we did, it's like Bob says -- we learned a lot of interesting stuff (that we'd never think about otherwise), and it's made us think of other things we can do -- often much simpler, like taking shorter showers and collecting rain water for garden projects.

 

It's shocking how much water you can save just by not flushing the toilet.

I used to be in the "sensitive" category there, but my baby daughter would wake up from naps when the toilet was flushed, so I quickly adapted.

If you have a 1.7 gal/flush toilet, avoiding just one flush a day saves 600 gallons a year!

 

As I write this there's a plumber at my house replacing our old 2.4 gallon with a 1.6 gallon per flush toilet. If we like it, we'll replace the other 2.4.

We just did a major kitchen remodel and in addition to better task lighting (so that we didn't have to have ALL the lights on just to see what we're doing), we put in a new super-efficient dishwasher. It saves water and heats the water, so we're able to turn the house water heater down ten degrees. It also actually works, our old one didn't, which meant washing the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher.

I'm thinking of getting a cistern/water barrel for collecting winter rains for use in the yard. We don't water much, but we do have some fruit trees that we really are spoiled by (nothing better than fresh plums and figs). Greywater reclamation is interesting, but I'm not sure how I'd implement that in my house ... maybe with water from the dog bath (hey, that's where all that dirt came from anyway) and the washing machine.

I got rid of the lawn in the front of our house a few years ago, it never really made any sense, just sucked up water. Now I have ornamental grasses and gravel and herbs planted there. It's much easier to care for an requires no watering at all.

The good news is that even though these things cost money, my figures show that they'll pay for themselves over the long run. Even the little things we did like replacing old mini blinds with lined roman shades has made a huge difference in the heating and cooling in the house (and made it look better, too).

Living in LA, I know that water will not always be so plentiful and we need to take steps now so that it isn't a hardship when the rationing comes aong.

 

bookrats, what type of system (brand, make, model, etc) did you put in for your hot water on demand system? I'm thinking of retroing my house with a grundfos system, but it runs on a timer, and I would love a wireless button to turn it on.

Nate

 

Hmmm. If it's the fuel tax that pays for the roads, SUV drivers might consider Prius drivers to be freeloaders. Not that I give a fig what SUV drivers think, but sometimes it's interesting to look at something from the other person's point of view.

 

We used the Metlund P-series -- it's built for houses that have a "closed loop" hot water system (i.e., there's a hot water pipe that goes from the hot water heater (in our case, a gas boiler) to all the sinks and showers in the house, and then returns to the boiler.

I'm not sure this is a common system -- we had our house torn down to the studs, and completely rewired and new plumbing (1908 house -- old for Seattle), so we were able to slip this in.

Also, it's a 5 year old system -- the Metlund models advertised at their web site are different than the one we got.

 

bookrats, Thanks for the info.

Nate

 

For those wanting to look into solar water heat, and electricity, without forking over the big bux, look at subscribing to home power magazine. It's a great magazine, that details numerous ways to set up such systems without the huge investments.

www.homepower.com

 

please correct me if i'm wrong, bookrats, but to do what you did requires a return line for the water in your hot water pipes to get back to the hot water heater.

picture an extra pump in a regular one-way wasteful water line. the pump can't move the water at all. you need essentially a closed LOOP of hot water plumbing from the heater that goes past all places that have hot water taps. in addition, you're doubling (or more) the length of the hot water lines, so they'll need at least twice the insulation that they have on them now (oh, they don't already?... )

a friend of mine had that built into his house in (i think it was) Portola Valley, and i was way jealous of the benefit. unfortunately the house i own would require the return line to go over the roof or under the dirt from the farthest reach of the house, and since each room is not tapped onto one line, i'd need returns from each room with a hot water tap!

the idea is great, and the timer that runs the pump for just the few needed minutes is the right way to do it, too, but it's not easy to add this to many, if not most houses.

ps.'s
i don't have any incandescent lights in my house... they've all been converted to fluorescent over the past few years.

if and when i afford a solar-electric system for the house, i'm going to add an electric hot water heater to preheat water for the home heating system as well as for domestic hot water, which are currently gas-heated.

when our hot water heater reached end-of-life some years ago, i had a high-efficiency gas furnace installed which supplies both home heat as well as domestic hot water. i guesstimated the old furnace (from the 50s or 60s) to be maybe 35% efficient; the new one runs in the 80s or 90s, depending on the model, yet can pump enough btu's into the water to keep the shower water reasonably hot... indefinitely! that's a nice tradeoff!

happy engineering! it's good for the planet!

 

I don't really "conserve water". I really never felt the need to. My water bills for my house are about $60.00 every 3 months. That is less than a dollar a day.

I feel that if you need something, you use it. If my car is dirty, I wash it. If I need to use the rest room, I flush. I think the "heath reason and risk" way out way 2 cents I will save.

My fiance plants flowers in the front yard every year. We water them reguarly, perhaps every other day if needed. We spend nearly $100.00 a year, in flowers, mulch etc. I could not imagine NOT watering them, and letting them wilt away.

I am not saying that I am WASTEFULL, please don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that for me personally, its not worth my time. For all of those who do go "above and beyond", more power to you.

 

[Apologies for the delay in replying -- for some reason I missed your post in May.]

You're exactly correct -- we do have all the hot water faucets connected to a hot water "closed loop" (good term!), with the pump being radio controlled. Since we were completely replacing all the pipes in the house, it was a feasible solution for us.

I absolutely agree. However, at least as of 5 years ago, Metlund had another system (the "S" system?) that would work in houses without the "hot water closed loop" -- i.e., something that would work similarly in existing houses.

All I remember about it was that it wasn't as elegant as the Metlund "P" system we use -- did something like push cold water in the hot water pipe back down the cold water pipe? That doesn't sound mechanically right.

At any rate, though, Metlund apparently sold a lot of those systems -- for exactly the reason you point out: very few people have the luxury of adding a "hot water closed loop" pipe throughout the house.

We did something similar (maybe the same): a gas boiler that heats the hot water, but also has a metal heating coil attached which the hot water can run through.

The heating coil is placed in the air duct; when the thermostat triggers the boiler, hot water is sent through the coil, heating the air that is forced through the duct.

Very happy with this!

 

Bob,
I work in the Water Conservation Department of a water company in the San Francisco Bay area. I happen to know that the Seattle Water Depatment has an excellent Water Conservation department. If you contact them, they will provide you many useful tips.

In the mean time, check out the book "Water Use and Conservation, by Amy Vickers.

You can reach me by email at [email protected].

Dave

 

Metlund does make a recirc system that does not need the return pipes to the DHW heater. It uses a pump that pulls water from the hot and pushes it into the cold until a thermocouple detects hot water. I installed 2 of them in new construction because of their simplicity, no cost for extra piping, and efficiency by avoiding the energy use and radiator effect of a hot water line always hot.

They work great. You only need one at the longest run from the heater. It can be activated by a little wired or wireless button from nearby fixtures.

They're located in the midwwest, as I recall and have a good website: http://www.metlund.com/

 

No water is really wasted, since all of it is recycled one way or another. The cold water "wasted" down the drain when you first open the hotwater faucet, along with the hot water used to shower, is likely processed at a plant and returned to a lake or river where water is picked up, purified and returned to the house.

 

Depends on how you look at "wasted".

Here in the Pacific NW, we have many demands on our fresh water (particularly river water) supplies (depending on where in the state you live):

• Drinking/residential use
• Commercial use
• Power generation (via dams)
• Wildlife (salmon in particular)
  • 
    When we have water shortages, due to smaller supply from melting snowpacks, they have to make decisions as to what to use the available water for. And (no surprise) the Wildlife often gets stinted in these situations.
    
    So anything people can do to reduce demand provides more water for the other "options". The local Seattle water company asked households to reduce water demand because of (relative) drought conditions a few years ago. We did it!
    
    (And then the water comany raised their rates to cover the income they weren't getting. :guns: )

 

Your observation is technically correct, however (bet you heard that coming), no always true from a practical standpoint. As Bookrats points out water and water rights attached to property in the Northwest is a big issue. In addition to Bookrats points, while much water is returned, the return is downstream and in Idaho that is often not helpful to us. At 11 inches of rainfall total a year, we are extremely dependant on snowpack, and have had several straight years of drought conditions.

Lack of potable water is a major issue in many parts of the world and has been the unspoken basis for many of the conflicts in third world regions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wolfman @ Apr 2 2004, 07:16 PM) [snapback]9543[/snapback]</div>

years later, from a newbie, thanks.

 

I think there is enough people on this thread saving water to balance out the universe. I would guess I use about 30,000 gallons a month, so if you all save a few gallons each, we can maintain the balance.

I water the heck out of my garden, grass and trees. Easily 1000 gallons a day when I figure 5 gallons a minute only takes a little over 3 hours and I let the sprinklers run most nights all night and some days most of the day too.