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2006 Prius - Check Engine and Red Triangle

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by seanwfsu, Mar 9, 2015.

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  1. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    My daughter recently bought a 2006 Prius with 170K, Car was running great at purchase time with no issues but unfortunately the honeymoon was short lived. Less than 50 miles, she got the check engine light and red triangle. Car seems to still to drive fine. Had a dealer near Knoxville TN pull the codes and the only code was a P0A9C - Hybrid Battery Temperature (Sensor A) Range / Performance. Was informed also as they checked history on the car that another dealer had recommended a new hybrid battery and inverter. Dropped by the other dealer today to get the codes that they had seen. The codes they had pulled at 169K on the vehicle were:

    P0A80 - HV Battery Cell Delta State of Charge Fault.

    P3016 - either a bad cell, or a shorted cell in the hybrid battery

    P0A08 - dc/dc converter status circuit.

    P0A78 - "Drive Motor A motor inverter".

    At this point, not sure how to proceed. I could see possibly investing in replacing the hybrid battery with a restored or salvaged one, but concerned about the inverter. I understand they are expensive to replace and to do both would be more than the value of the car. How do I determine if the inverter is bad as well? When I asked the dealer, all they would say is "that it is currently performing as it should or there would be a code in the computer. " Not much to go on.
     
    #1 seanwfsu, Mar 9, 2015
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Regarding the inverter, you could replace it with a used unit for ~$300 or so if you can DIY the replacement. Repair manual info at techinfo.toyota.com
     
    #2 Patrick Wong, Mar 9, 2015
  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    wow, that's a bummer. I would probably get rid of that car instead of spending money on it. It sounds like it could be a money pit if you rely on dealers to perform the work.
     
    #3 JC91006, Mar 9, 2015
  4. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    At this point, not sure how to proceed. I could see possibly investing in replacing the hybrid battery with a restored or salvaged one, but concerned about the inverter. I understand they are expensive to replace and to do both would be more than the value of the car. How do I determine if the inverter is bad as well? When I asked the dealer, all they would say is "that it is currently performing as it should or there would be a code in the computer. " Not much to go on.

    Are you a do it yourself kind of guy? As JC91006 said, if you rely on dealers it will not be cost effective to repair this car. The first thing a DIY Prius owner needs is a Mini VCI cable and Techstream software. They are about $25 on ebay or Amazon.
    Mini VCI 16pin Cable Support Toyota Tis Diagnostic Software with Arm CPU | eBay
    That $25 is way less than one trip to the dealer for code reading. A quick check with Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market shows three used batteries available in Unionville, Tn for $800 each. If they do not have a core charge that is not a bad deal. As Patrick said, used inverters are not expensive.
    I would take care of the battery first. It is common for a bunch of "phatom codes" to go away once the real cause is repaired.

    Brad
     
    #4 strawbrad, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think the inverter will be fine, they are pretty reliable.
     
    #5 bisco, Mar 10, 2015
  6. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    I appreciate all the information. I was pretty bummed after returning from the dealer. The one dealer quoted $7700 for the a new battery and inverter. You guys have given me hope. I"ll invest in the Mini VCI and start the research on replacing the battery. We will see how it goes. Hoping the inverter is good, but glad to know that they are not as pricey as I thought.
     
    #6 seanwfsu, Mar 10, 2015
  7. flyboy09

    flyboy09 Junior Member

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    I have a 2005 prius with the P0A80 code and found there to be one bad cell of the 28 in the car. $25.00 for a replacement cell on eBay and back in business. I might be able to read your battery health with an obd2 scanner and engine link app. Let me know.
     
    #7 flyboy09, Mar 11, 2015
  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Well it's not exactly $25 and a done deal. There's much more to it unless you want to repeat the process over in a very short time
     
    #8 JC91006, Mar 11, 2015
  9. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Another case of someone just resetting the codes and quickly selling off the car. It seems that you have to be so careful buying a second hand Prius!
     
    #9 uart, Mar 11, 2015
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Get a quote for just the battery? Can't see the harm in just doing the battery first, see hoow it goes. And for sure check other dealerships, get at least one more quote.
     
    #10 Mendel Leisk, Mar 11, 2015
  11. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    Update on my daughter's Prius. I ran the v12 battery test via the MFD and got the following: Initial reading 12.5. Turned on acc and waited a few minutes and it drop to 12.4 and then 12.3 and then held there. Turned on engine and went to 14.3.

    Received the mini vci and techstream software (version 8.00.034). Wasn't exactly clear how I was suppose to collect the data. I ran the test this evening. First 15 minutes with just Acc=on, then 10 minutes driving. Here are the results:

    Acc=On Ignition=on
    Parameter Initial 3 min 12 min 15 min 1 min 6 min 9 min 25 min
    Batt Block Min Vol 15.6 15.63 14.85 15.31 15.99 14.72 14.93 14.88
    Min Batt Block No 4 4 9 9 5 13 4 9
    Batt Block Max Vol 15.79 15.82 15.2 15.64 16.21 15.03 15.21 15.19
    Max Batt Block No 1 1 1 1 8 1 1 1
    Battery Block Vol -V01 15.82 15.82 15.18 15.69 16.23 14.86 15.23 15.24
    Battery Block Vol -V02 15.66 15.67 14.99 15 16.05 14.65 15.02 15.01
    Battery Block Vol -V03 15.7 15.72 14.97 15.46 16.04 14.66 15.02 14.99
    Battery Block Vol -V04 15.63 15.62 14.9 15.42 16.02 14.57 14.94 14.94
    Battery Block Vol -V05 15.69 15.69 14.94 15.44 16.16 14.62 14.99 14.99
    Battery Block Vol -V06 15.63 15.63 14.94 15.42 16.15 14.62 14.98 14.96
    Battery Block Vol -V07 15.69 15.69 14.89 15.43 16.05 14.62 14.98 14.96
    Battery Block Vol -V08 15.66 15.66 15 15.46 16.08 14.61 14.98 15
    Battery Block Vol -V09 15.64 15.62 14.88 15.35 16.04 14.55 14.89 14.93
    Battery Block Vol -V10 15.66 15.66 14.97 15.42 16.08 14.61 14.99 14.98
    Battery Block Vol -V11 15.69 15.69 14.9 15.4 16 14.61 14.97 14.97
    Battery Block Vol -V12 15.68 15.64 15.05 15.45 16.03 14.61 14.99 14.99
    Battery Block Vol -V13 15.73 15.76 15.03 15.45 16.17 14.69 15.04 15.01
    Battery Block Vol -V14 15.7 15.69 15.03 15.48 16.17 14.69 15.03 15.03

    Battery state of charge 57.50% 56.50% 51 46 47 70 53.5 53
    Temp of Batt TB1 60.6 59.5 62.4 61.7 61.7 61.9 63.1 63.3
    Temp of Batt TB2 67.8 67.6 67.1 66.9 66.9 75.7 79.7 79.7
    Temp of Batt TB3 64 64 63.9 63.9 63.9 71.8 74.8 75
     
    #11 seanwfsu, Mar 21, 2015
  12. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    There were a couple of DTC codes as well. Under HV battery: P0A9C as Pending and History. Under Hybrid Control - P3000-123 as Current and History.
     
    #12 seanwfsu, Mar 21, 2015
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    DTC P0A9C means that a traction battery temperature sensor has failed (there are three.)

    I understand that the temperature readings are in F. Note the large difference in readings across the three sensors. That is why the error was logged.

    You could try using a handheld, infrared instant thermometer on the traction battery sheet steel case to see whether you can confirm the sensor readings. If some modules are actually running hotter than others that would be a leading indicator of a module failure.

    Also note the module pairs (aka battery block) that register low and high voltage across the 14 module pairs. If the same module pair shows up repeatedly that is a leading indication of that module pair's poor health. Normally the high and low module pair voltages will be logged across many module pairs as time elapses, which shows the pairs are all performing at around the same level.
     
    #13 Patrick Wong, Mar 21, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
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  14. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    I went back and checked the stored Techstream data. The temperatures are listed as F's not C's under the Unit column in my setup. I should have confirmed that when I posted the data originally.
     
    #14 seanwfsu, Mar 21, 2015
  15. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Ok, now with a Mini VCI progress is being made. The three temp sensors just clip onto the bottom of the battery modules. I had one come off once and that showed a even greater temp difference than your data. You have to disassemble most of the battery to get to the temp sensors. If you decide the sensors are bad and not just out of place I can sell you a replacement set for $20. I have lots of them left over from rebuilding batteries. The P3000 sub 123 could be related to the temp sensors. From my Gen I manual. "Input of abnormal signal from battery ECU (HV battery system malfunction) HV battery system, High Voltage fuse, HV battery cooling system, Power cable.

    To load test your battery with Techstream follow this procedure. Watch the live battery data as the test is done.

    Charge test : Engine on, set parking brake, car in drive, step on gas and brake fully. Your car will just sit still and charge. Give it about thirty seconds to a minute. The weak module pair voltages will rise faster and higher than the rest.

    Discharge test: Car on and warmed up, engine off, set parking brake, car in reverse, step on the brake, give it a little gas but not so much that the gas engine turns on. The car will sit still and discharge the battery. Give it about a minute. The weak module pairs will drop in voltage faster and farther.

    A good short discussion of this can be found in this thread. Unable to determine the cause of the triangle warning | PriusChat

    The results of the discharge test performed my veggiecar can be found here. Dropbox - Screenshot 2015-02-25 08.40.51.png

    You are now well on your way to fixing your daughters car.
    Brad
     
    #15 strawbrad, Mar 21, 2015
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  16. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    Well I attempted the charge and discharge tests this evening but did not see the obvious differences in voltage that others have seen with bad cells. The biggest range between the lowest and highest was about .5 volts but most of the time around .35 volts. I ran the test for about 3 minutes hoping the additional time might show something. Same with the discharge test, ran it for 2 minutes with largest variance being about .2 volts but most of the time .15 or so.

    Couple of things about the test that may have invalidated it.
    1) it was dark and the headlights were on for part of the time during the tests.
    2) On the charging test, with the gas peddle pressed to the floor, the engine did not rev that highly. I was expecting it to roar. So wasn't sure if I was doing something incorrectly.

    Side note, the temp of Battery TB2 registered around 124.0 F, while the other 2 batteries were around 116 and 112. The Engine Coolant Temp hit around 196 F.
     
    #16 seanwfsu, Mar 24, 2015
  17. flyboy09

    flyboy09 Junior Member

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    just a guess not sure if this would have something to do with temp's...have you checked the battery cooling fan? if the previous owner had a pet, the fan could be plugged with dust and hair.
     
    #17 flyboy09, Mar 25, 2015
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  18. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    The charge and discharge results are encouraging. If you run it again pay close attention to block #6 as the P3016 code indicates that is the weak block. Weak module pairs will be both the lowest and highest voltage on discharge and charge. At this point I would clear the codes, drive the car and see how quickly they return. Guesses of the true cause are 12 volt battery, temp sensors, battery ECU.
     
    #18 strawbrad, Mar 25, 2015
  19. seanwfsu

    seanwfsu New Member

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    Thought I might be back here sooner as I took the advice just to clear codes and see how quickly they returned. Well at the end of July after the car sat for 10 days, the car hasn't been the same. A few days after my daughter began using it again, the Red Triangle, the Check engine and VSC lights all returned. The symptoms: very slow acceleration, MTF comes and goes, fan in rear seat is blowing steadily, able to go 75 plus MPH on flat and down hill, but drops dramatically on uphill.

    Codes are as follows:

    Hybrid Control: P0A0F under HIST - Engine Failed to Start
    P3000-123 under Curr and Hist

    HV Battery: P0A80 under Pend and Hist
    P3014 under Pend and Hist

    ABS/VSC: C1259 - under Curr - HV System Regenerative Malfunction
    C1310 - under Curr - HV System Malfunction

    AC: B1421 - under Curr - Solar Sensor Circuit (Passenger SIde)

    Gateway: B1248 - under Hist - AVC-LAN Communication Impossible


    Ran the Charge and Discharge tests above. Battery Block 4 was at 15.83 compared to the others being between 16.90 - 17.03. Block 4 jumped quickly to 17.30 and became the max block and continued to climb to over 18. In the Discharge test, Block 4 immediately dropped down to 16.8 and then back to 15.5 while the others slowly dropped back down to around 17. As indicated by the P3014, Block 4 seems to be the culprit. Block 6 that was indicated in the previous DTC in March, seemed to behave fine at the test in March and again in this test.

    Anything else I should be concerned over or should check? Is the next step to go to ebay and order a hybrid module? Any recommended suppliers? Any guidance, recommendations or suggestions would be appreciated.
     
    #19 seanwfsu, Aug 17, 2015
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Your car definitely needs a new (or newer) traction battery.

    If you want to make working on the traction battery your new hobby, you can replace individual modules as they fail. I think you should replace Block 4, 5, and 6 at minimum (hence 6 modules) since 4 and 6 have been marginal enough to post DTC which means they are overheating and probably impacting adjacent modules.

    However if you buy used 2G modules on eBay you probably will be wondering whether the modules are any better than the ones already installed in your car.

    If your time is more valuable than that but you are looking for an economical solution - then if I were you I would look for a used 3G traction battery from a salvage yard, and move all 28 modules into your car's traction battery case.

    Then you can sell the good modules from your original battery on eBay and recoup some of the cost of the used 3G battery.
     
    #20 Patrick Wong, Aug 18, 2015
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