2008 Prius stats revealed: lithium-ion and 94 mpg !!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 8 2006, 05:10 PM) [snapback]236916[/snapback]</div>

What is your expectation?

We know that the next generation Prius is on its way, which will obviously be another step forward. We know that the price of gas has no promise of returning to cheap anymore, since demand continues to grow. We know that there won't be any real competition for a number of years still, because the other automakers simply were not preparing for this.

That sure seems like a good indication that the current Prius will retain value quite well. Just think of what the competition's used non-hybrids will sell for.

Needless to say, the hybrid market is going to get even more interesting. The emergence of rumors is proof. The media was looking backward and a-skew for years. Now focus is aimed forward. That's pretty cool.

There will be a better battery-pack and more reliance on electricity. What else do you need to know? After all, MPG estimates haven't ever been realistic anyway. Patience. It's well worth the wait.

As for me, there's simply no way of knowing what my personal or financial situation will be when the new Prius comes out. But I'd sure like to upgrade again.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Apr 8 2006, 02:18 PM) [snapback]236855[/snapback]</div>

I don't know about you, but here in central Illinois, I don't want to mess around with plugging/unplugging the car every night. Plus, our power company is going to some weird auction deal next year when they purchase electricity on the open market, so they are expecting 30% increase in cost. Still, 94 mpg would be sweet!

 

30% would be nothing. Electricity is so cheap compared to gasoline (to propel a car) that it would still be significantly cheaper.

I don't understand why plugging in is a hassle. Is buying gas less of a hassle? I hate buying gas. It has to be done outdoors, you get gas smell on your hands, and you have to drive to the gas station. I can plug in in the comfort of my own garage. I already plug in my laptop, cell phone, etc, so why not the car?

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 8 2006, 06:10 PM) [snapback]236916[/snapback]</div>

Even though the Prius approaches (or surpasses) the level of technology found in cameras, computers, etc... I don't think it will ever approach those products level depreciation down to worthlessness. After all, it is still a solid vehicle of transportation after 5, 6, 7 years that still serves it's primary purpose - moving people and stuff - and does it very well at that.

The same can't be said about a 5-year old computer that tries to run newer applications.

As for resale value, I wouldn't be too concerned about that, as the Gen 1 Prii still sell for pretty good prices, even though Gen 2's have been out three model years now. If anything, it would be more the tax incentives that hurt the resale market, but I imagine that will be phased out eventually as hybrids become more mainstream and production costs lower.

Finally, I am still a bit skeptical about the 94MPG number. I would have thought there would be a more significant improvement from Gen 1 -> Gen 2 than Gen 2 -> Gen 3, since the first iteration of a product is just one version better than a beta. Gen 2 was nowhere near a 50% improvement, at least in FE. Of course, the effectiveness of a plugin feature depends on that person's trip distances, so that number sounds like it would be even less "reliable" than the number calculated by the current EPA system.

Of course, unless I hear it come from Toyota themself (which won't happen for a long time), I do not put much stock in these stories... Just my own humble opinion, of course...

Kevin

 

I'm not worried about resale.

First...there would have to be so many that the supply outstripped the demand. I think by 2008 there are going to be plenty of people who are going to want a Prius. They may not be able to afford the new redesign, may not want to risk the "new" untested redesign and would rather go with the proven Prius, or there may be such a waiting list they'll decide to settle for a used Prius.

Any way you look at it I think the demand will keep the resale value high.

Personally, I don't want a plug in even if it does get 90+ miles to the gallon. I also want a hatchback so if that's gone I'll keep my current car. I also happen to really like the design. I'm not real thrilled with the added chrome on the '06. So if the new design is "uglier" IMO, I'll still keep my car. I think it will last longer than 10 years. And who know...in 10 years there may not be enough gas (or affordable gas) for me to justify owning a car.

 

A little of this info was posted here a week or two ago, but it sounds like you all missed it. Presumably jared2's headline of "Toyota's future Plans" didn't have enough exclamation marks...

This Guardian article from March 31 quotes Shinichi Abe, head of Toyota's hybrid division:

I can see lots of these nonsense "mpg" figures for hybrids are going to have to be clamped down on. There's a new version of the European fuel-efficiency standards - published but not fully in force yet - that cracks down on it. To allow fair comparisons, a plug-in hybrid has to give separate official fuel-only and electric-only efficiency figures (in L/100km and Wh/km), plus electric range, using a standard test. (Details here, but only for real tech-heads).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Apr 8 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]236927[/snapback]</div>

I wouldn't mind plugging it in!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 9 2006, 04:06 AM) [snapback]237092[/snapback]</div>

Everyone must realize you won't have to plug it in. You will still be able to drive it like a regular hybrid. That's the beauty of the system. I agree with the separate fuel and electrical economy + range ratings. Then people who don't want to plug in see what their performance will be and others can get an idea of theirs based on thier daily commute/usage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Apr 8 2006, 06:44 PM) [snapback]236927[/snapback]</div>

They designed it with bigger wheels on the back, so it always rolls downhill.

 

very valid concerns over the mileage claims and would have to assume compromises in design and interior space. to be honest with ya, i love my Prius and other than minor cosmetic and interior creature comforts, i dont want a major redesign.

Godiva brings up good points and to be honest with ya, a hybrid corolla would be an excellent product but would not be for me

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Apr 8 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]236855[/snapback]</div>

SO if this is as accurate as the current estimates on the 06 , then the 08 might actually get 50-60

 

94 mpg sounds about right. We can already get about 70 with battery operation, and this car will be all battery mode in city driving, plus with a bigger capacity and more efficient battery.

94 on the highway would be great but I don't expect they mean that. I hope they can improve that mpg some too. like maybe 10 mpg better.

The other key thing for us in cold climates is Lithium should still work when we get winter! And with 9 mile range a trip that requires the engine would also be just long enough to get some warm up. So if they do it right we should see much less loss in winter vs summer.

 

My commute to work is ~ 8 miles. So this sounds perfect for me. Though I would still like to see a more range before reverting back to gas/electric hybrid.

 

My Prius will arrive in six days...I've waited three months...Maybe I should cancel my order and wait another two years? Nah, any year Prius is a great year.

 

I found the article that was mentioned. http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/66260/pr...its_113mpg.html

The link is above and below is the article. I cant wait!!!!!!!!

Prius hits 113mpg

Toyota is charging ahead in the race for domination of the hybrid car market, according to Auto Express spies.

The firm's next Prius will be so efficient it will be the first production car capable of returning more than 110mpg. The newcomer is being developed to try to improve European sales. While the car has been a success in the US, it has met a mixed reaction on this side of the Atlantic, due to the popularity of diesel models.

But now we've been told that engineers working on the new Prius have a fuel economy target of 40km/litre - a mind-boggling 113mpg.

"The whole electrical system has been redesigned to improve economy" said one Toyota engineer. "We are working on

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a prototype that runs solely on the electric motor in slow traffic, but switches to engine and motor drive when higher speeds are needed." The secret lies with the batteries. The current Prius uses nickel-hydride items, which currently offer the best balance between cost and performance.

But engineers are working on new lithiumion cells, which are lighter, smaller, generate more power and last longer. Subaru and Mitsubishi both plan to sell electric cars by 2010, but Toyota hopes to get its new model on the road as early as 2008.

And improved economy isn't the firm's only goal, as engineers are working on reducing the current car's 10.9-second 0-62mph time by more than a second.
Peter Lyon

 

WOW! I've talked to Mrs BigDaddy about moving to a Prius, we are due to flip her SUV into something else in 2010. Can't wait to see her driving one of these.

I have 4 years to convince her. I'll be the one driving the gas-guzzler (05 Prius) then!

 

Keep in mind the 113 mpg might be Imperial gallons which are different than American gallons. From my quick searches (not sure if my sourcs are totally accurate) 113 miles per Imperial gallons is roughly equal to 94 miles per American gallon which is the same as the 94 originally stated.

 

94mpg - NO WAY in real life. Sure you might be able to go 9 miles on electric, but after that what? And you have to factor in the cost of electricity, don't know about where you are from but in my neck of the woods electricity runs about 15 cents a kwh! That is not free, and may actually be more expensive than gasoline. Further, electricity is produced from (in most cases) fossil fuel and you only get about 1/3rd of the fuel value out when you convert it to electricity.

Sure it sounds good, but it really is not going to save most people much in operating costs. What will be the real mpg for a 100 mile drive? If that goes up a lot then we are talking about something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ Apr 10 2006, 11:38 AM) [snapback]237601[/snapback]</div>

Precisely why many of us track our fuel economy with a spread sheet at every fill-up. Almost daily I encounter someone who is curious about how a Prius genuinely performs. I pull out a current copy of my vehicle's spread sheet. I point out that because of ambient air temperatures and fuel formulation, fuel economy goes up during summer and down during winter. I then add that driving a hybrid is not the same as driving a conventional, run-all-the-time ICE vehicle. People walk away feeling they have gained some substantial information.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster @ Apr 10 2006, 01:38 PM) [snapback]237601[/snapback]</div>

It takes about 250 watt-hours for a Prius to go a mile (at about 60mph). So $0.15/4 = 1 mile, call it 4 cents/mile. Assume 50 mpg currently, $2.50/gallon, that comes out to 5 cents/mile. It makes sense to have a plug-in on your moderately expensive electric rates as long as gas is over $2/gal.

Many modifications of the Prius have achieved over 100 mpg, so 94 is believable. Then there's the team of 5 people in NY or PA that drove an unmodified Prius 1300 miles on one tank of gas (came out to 110 mpg, they must've gassed up to the lid), on open roads with stop lights. Granted, they were using the pulse & glide method, keeping it between 30 and 40 mph (the Prius' most optimal speed for fuel efficiency).

For your issue of electricity coming from fossil fuels, keep in mind that the cars would be plugged in overnight, generally. Utility companies can't power down their plants overnight, so they run all the time, regardless of whether people are using the electricity or not. To promote use of off-peak electricity, some utility companies charge lower rates at night.

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