California Prius HOV lane sticker "gold rush"

It was an inventive to get people to buy more fuel efficient cars, and it has worked- you see more Prius every day. There are way more than 75,000 hybrids that qualify for a sticker yet there are only about 54,000 stickers issued as of last week, so not everyone is greedy.

By the way, the "advantage" ends at the end of 2007. Fran Pavley who sponsored the bill is termed out this year. A new legislator is needed to sponsor a new bill in CA if you want to continue the carpool. So I guess it would be "Hasta la Vista" for the sticker in 1 and 1/2 years anyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fredmertz @ Apr 4 2006, 04:31 AM) [snapback]234621[/snapback]</div>

I guess the real idiot here is me...I guess I'm too much of a romantic to realize that anyone would want to buy a green vehicle to do anything but help the planet. <_<

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BionicWeasel @ Apr 3 2006, 10:36 PM) [snapback]234578[/snapback]</div>

I got them only about two days after they finally cashed my check. (They must have come in Fri. or Sat. as I have been out of town this past weekend, but I would sure be calling someone if I were you).

As for the original point, if California offers them, I am going to take advantage of saving me about 1-3 hours (depending on traffic) commute time per day, 5 days a week. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't everyone, regaurdless of how much they are going to use them? If it's the law of the land, go for it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 3 2006, 09:38 PM) [snapback]234547[/snapback]</div>

I certainly WANT to believe this... but if it were really true, we'd still have the option to purchase an electric car today (the first vehicles to have the solo-HOV incentive).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ Apr 4 2006, 08:44 AM) [snapback]234708[/snapback]</div>

I personally don't think there are any idiots on this board. The folks here provide some of the most thought provoking posts that I have seen. We may be a smug group, but I don't see the huge egos and nastiness that typically follow the anonymous board poster.

PS: Being a romantic is a good thing. Who knows, one of these days the light bulb may go on and I may convert over to your way of thinking.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 4 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]234724[/snapback]</div>

The major manufacturers aren't offering them anymore as a business decision, right? I know you have had several (a Rav4 that you still have, IIRC, and also GM's EV1 they made you return as they only leased them.) So you know a lot more about this than I do. But it seems to me that consumer acceptance is only half the story ... a company has to be willing to produce them and the incredible liability that comes along with making a product that is involved in fatalities. I suspect there wasn't enough demand for the EV1 or electric Rav4 for the manufacturers to continue making them.

Aren't there any small companies doing electric conversions? Those are still eligible for the HOV stickers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fredmertz @ Apr 4 2006, 05:42 PM) [snapback]234989[/snapback]</div>

Agreed.

PS: One of these days I hope that Lamborghini makes a 100 MPG car that I can afford.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 4 2006, 09:02 PM) [snapback]235077[/snapback]</div>

The answer is too long to be appropriate in this thread. I'll be as brief as I can be...

Yes, of course it was a business decision. No reason to build crazy electric cars when there already exists huge profits in gas cars - an established money-making business! Same way that GM made the business decision to NOT make hybrids for so long.... and about as brilliant.

There are fewer liability concerns with electrics than with cars filled with 10, 20, 30 gallons of gasoline so I'm not sure where that's going.

As far as demand goes, we will never know. These cars were not marketed, were not sold (except for exactly eight months in the Rav4's case) had zero options, and on and on. For a bit that I wrote to Car and Driver on this subject, please see here:

http://www.darelldd.com/ev/darell_writing.htm (item 2 - makes more sense if you first read the linked article)
And for a bit more on the CARB hearings regarding why automakers are not making BEVs, please try item 1 on that same page. And then more here on the ZEV mandate. You get the idea. Go to my main EV page (always in my sig) and click on "docs" in the left side and you'll find all this stuff.

Thanks for your interest.

 

I hope I don't offend anyone but the only reason I even considered buying a hybrid was for the solo HOV access. Of course the other money-saving bonuses were nice, they were just that, bonuses. I work in Downtown LA and although I have been enjoying the luxury of driving brand new Mercedes Benz' over the last 6+ years, recently it really started to get to me that as I was getting massaged by my drive-dynamic seats doing 10mph in my beautiful German automobile, about 2 dozen Prius' and HCH's were jetting right past me in the carpool lane.

I still have the Benz for going out to eat or a night out on the town but I really enjoy saving about an hour a day on my commute. I paid $36,400 out the door for my Prius and I would have paid double that if I had to. I also would have done it all over again in a heartbeat even if it only got 10mpg but still had the ability to utilize the carpool lane.

With that said, I believe that these cars have earned the right to drive solo in the carpool lane. That is, to me, what is really making these things sell for thousands over sticker in LA. They are also helping to cut down on the air pollution so more power to them!

 

I am liking this healthy debate.
I live in LA and used to work with the AQMD on a project. The diamond lanes or HOV lanes were designed to decrease air pollution by increasing carpooling, thus having less polluting vehicles on the road. In such, the Prius acts to decrease air pollution- and is rewarded for this by allowing it to be in the HOV lanes.
However, what happens when everyone has a hybrid car- when all manufacturers produce low or no emission vehicles? I think eventually the HOV lanes will be toll ways and if you want to pay for the shorter commute- your money can go into the funding of better roads etc. But for now, driving a Prius in the HOV lane makes sense for the goals of why the diamond lane was set up originally. I just wish those stickers were more attractive on the car!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 4 2006, 09:02 PM) [snapback]235077[/snapback]</div>

The problems with Electric Vehicles for the Average Consumer:
1. Only can go a short distance on one charge (i.e. under 200 miles)
2. Takes substantially longer to charge than to fill up a gas tank.
3. Doesn't have the power that gas engines do.

These are the reasons that there wasn't enough of a demand for them to be manufactured, now with Hybrids we have the best of both worlds, a car with very little pollution and doesn't have to be plugged in, would it be nice to have the option to have a larger battery that could be plugged in? Of course it would, but it should also work in such a way that it will be fine if you nev er plug it in.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(savingtheearth @ Apr 5 2006, 08:13 AM) [snapback]235256[/snapback]</div>

Move to Utah, they have special liscense plates for Clean Air Vehicles, thus eliminating the sticker issue.

 

At first I wasn't sure I would get the stickers because at the time I was not commuting that much and generally it was at an hour where traffic was very lite. Also, since I'm in the SF Bay area I would have to get FasTrack to qualify for the stickers.

Then I could see where, as my travel during commute would be increasing some, it world be made easier by having the stickers. I still don't drive that much during commute hours but being able to hop into the HOV lanes and get past slowdowns (also making room for someone else in the regular lanes) has been a plus for me. My regular commute is still at a time where the stickers don't apply but when I need to visit a customer and I have to deal with commute traffic it is invaluable. As to FasTrack, I've only had 4 charges against the account since last August so having it is a moot point.

Was the relatively low cost a factor in getting the sticker? Yes. If the cost had been $25 added to my annual registration renewal then I wouldn't have done it. IMO, the DMV screwed up. They could have made it more like a true license fee. On the other hand, the DMV had a problem. All that concrete in those HOV lanes were setting there with very low usage. By providing for shared use by qualifying vehicles they can reward people that are trying to improve the environment while at the same time putting wheels onto underutilized concrete.

BTW, I will often be driving in the HOV lanes and running at the same speed (65~68) as the cars in the regular lanes. The one thing I make an effort to do is if someone comes up behind me I slip out of the HOV lane (up here they are not concrete canyons) to let the speed demons by and then return to the HOV lane.

 

I dislike the stickers-- but not enought to move to Utah. Thanks for the suggestion though!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cmwade77 @ Apr 5 2006, 08:56 AM) [snapback]235280[/snapback]</div>

I would SO love to debate this with you, as your points are not accurate. Most notably the third one! I recently drove in an EV that does 0-60 in under three seconds. UNDER 3 seconds. These are the things you've been told, yes? Would you like to hear from somebody who lives and breathes EVs? Please come join me in an appropriate thread about EVs: http://priuschat.com/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=15103

Or, to put it correctly, you don't *get* to plug it in; you HAVE to go to the gas station. I fill at home, in the comfort of my garage.

There isn't a single plug-in hybrid design that would not work this way. You can choose to go on burning gasoline just like we do in the hybrids now, or you can reduce pollution, increase power, save money and refuel conveniently by just plugging in, the same way you do with your cell phone every night.

Please come join me in an appropriate thread so we don't drag this on off-topic. I've taken the liberty of copying this post to the EV thread I pointed at before.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(savingtheearth @ Apr 5 2006, 08:13 AM) [snapback]235256[/snapback]</div>

Yes... to a point. I'd still rather see four commuters in a Scion, than one in a Prius, ya know? Think of the fuel savings alone. The Scion would be getting about 3x the passenger mpg. If solo-driving in a Prius is decreasing air pollution, then when I have four people in my solar-charged battery electric car, I must be actually generating pristine, clean air. I should probably be paid to cross the bridges like that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 5 2006, 09:38 AM) [snapback]235309[/snapback]</div>

Now Darell...while I do agree with you on the EV angle...I don't think you can really call it "pristine, clean air" remember how most electrical power is generated after all--by burning coal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BellBoy @ Apr 5 2006, 09:59 AM) [snapback]235323[/snapback]</div>

Yikes. I'm trying to let this die... but really I have no self control.

Yes. I specifically said MY solar-charged EV in my example.

Even so, studies by EPRI, Argonne Labs and California's Energy Commission (among many others) have all concluded that, well-to-wheels, EVs are cleaner than even the cleanest of hybrids, and that's even when the electricity comes from the national grid currently consisting of about 60% coal.

My point is, regardless of vehicle type, if "clean air" is the goal - a carpool is still better in many ways, than a solo driver in a Prius. A carpool in my solar-charged EV is just an extremem example of what is POSSIBLE... that will never be possible in a gasoline car of any description.

 

have you ever noticed cars with more than one person who don't use the carpool lane? or how about all the people on this board who have installed EV switches? the HOV access stickers are an option.

as far as i'm concerning, my smugness comes from driving the prius itself, with or without my stickers. i hardly make use of them, as it turns out: the freeway i spend most of my time on has no carpool lanes, and when i'm on a freeway that does, i'm usually not driving in traffic and thus don't need them (people get mad if you go 55 in a carpool lane anyway). in fact, the only time i consistently take advantage of the stickers is the freeway onramp near my kids' daycare, which has a stoplight and a carpool lane.

in terms of policy, i really wish that california came up with a ratchet, where carpool lane access depended on exceeding a certain mpg that increases every year (i'm sure they could do it with special plates, but probably not with stickers). until that day comes...

 

Track cars are cool. I still have my Impreza, but a Hummer...why?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 5 2006, 10:19 AM) [snapback]235340[/snapback]</div>

Oh crap! I totally forgot...my bad!