1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Duracell 12v "Prius" battery

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by rifis, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. rifis

    rifis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    41
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Does anyone have experience with the Duracell branded AGM 51P 12v “Prius” battery previously mentioned on Priuschat by Rude person's? jdenenberg, in response to one of Rude person's’s mentions, asked if it had a vent port, but never received a response.


    This is why I ask: Yesterday ( after my “parking lock malfunction” experience Boxing Day evening, and subsequent discovery of this invaluable website), I called the local Batteries Plus store to ask if the Duracell was in stock. The gentlemanly franchise owner told me it was. I asked “is it vented?”. He told me “No, it is completely sealed; no vent”. Having no EE nor automotive smarts, I didn’t question him further.


    But after hanging up, I went online to see what the Duracell car battery website said about the battery. ( Priuschat won't let me create links or use any phrases vaguely resembling links until tomorrow - I just joined today). There, I found the following descriptors/statements for the AGM51P: " flush manifold vented cover” and “Battery gasses need to be vented to outside: AGM valve regulated battery required. Battery located in trunk.” The AGM51P is listed as the "AGM51P Prius battery" at their website.


    I have not called the store back. Can anyone confirm this battery vents to the outside through a vent tube, just like the OEM on my 2010 (in service from 8/09, courtesy of “Cash for Clunkers”)?


    Two nights ago, after the problem arose, and after perusing this site, I borrowed my neighbor’s multimeter. The battery was the problem. I measured 9.7v at the terminals. Got the car to start by the “accessory mode/push and hold power switch” method. Drove it about 8 miles, then back into the garage, and turned it off. Measured 12.54v immediately afterwards. It has sat unused since. Haven’t activated any lights. Garage temp probably mid/upper 40s (F). Measured 12.29v the next (yesterday) morning, the same 12.29v that afternoon, and 12.23v this morning. All at the terminals. No load testing attempts.


    Awaiting arrival of Battery Tender Jr. from UPS. Plan to fully charge (or TRY to fully charge) the OEM, then monitor it - based on my reading of threads here. And then decide if replacement warranted.


    OR, am I wasting my time – should I just replace the OEM now? For many months now, mainly short (6 miles or so roundtrip) trips once every 3 or 4 days. AND, 1 episode of interior lights accidently remaining on for 36 hrs. – about 3 weeks ago. No start problem was noticed at that time.


    I ask about the Duracell (East Penn, as the Duracell site indicates) because the price seems right for a non- DIYer. $179 installed, w/48 month full replacement “nationwide” warranty. But jdenenberg had several good points/questions.
     
  2. TsKarma

    TsKarma Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    82
    8
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    From what I have read, short trips aren't friendly to prius 12v battery due to the Prius 12v trickle (bad choice of words....i meant slowwww like a trickle) recharge system. Need to use a 12v battery charger to charge your 12v battery (probably after dinner time to minimize electricity cost).
     
    #2 TsKarma, Dec 28, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,760
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    Have you considered an Optima AGM battery? Completely sealed, mount upside down or sideways if you'd like. They are the most discussed on the forums after market battery for a Prius. I've seen them at my local BatteriesPlus, also installed one in my Porsche.
     
  4. xpcman

    xpcman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    1,302
    295
    0
    Location:
    California - SF Bay area
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    It's time to replace that 12v battery. My 2010 is just a few months older and needed an new battery in sunny California. Such short trips will never keeps a marginal battery charged in a Prius.
     
  5. rifis

    rifis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    41
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Yes, I have (if I replace now). I've read many of the threads here.
     
  6. rifis

    rifis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    41
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Do you judge the battery to be marginal because of the rate of decline in voltage I described above (once it was up to 12.54v immediately after driving it 8 miles)? One new data point - new voltage now, 16 hrs. after the (last) 12.23v, is 12.18v. Car remaining at rest.

    Or is it marginal because 8 miles of driving "only" boosted voltage from 9.7 to 12.54v 2 nights ago? Or because voltage was first measured at such a lowly 9.7v after trying, unsuccessfully, to start car after it had sat for a few days (about 3 weeks after interior lights accidently remained on for 36 hrs)?

    If I did replace the battery, would the short trips I described (above) now keep the new battery charged (w/o additional measures, such as battery tender/minder)?
     
  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,817
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Optima is cheaper.
    Check Advance Auto on line pickup at store. I got mine for $169 out the door.

    And your battery is toast.
     
  8. Den49

    Den49 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    498
    268
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Probably not, use the Battery Tender Junior you mentioned above if you want to keep your new battery healthy and get its full life out of it. Your current battery is near death.
     
    #8 Den49, Dec 29, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  9. rifis

    rifis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    41
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Thank you, all.

    I would still like to hear the reasoning leading to the determination that my battery is marginal, or toast. So I can learn something.

    Looking for the kind of explanation typically provided by posters like jdenenberg, doruron, Patrick Wong, and Bill Norton (to name just a few).

    And still hoping to hear about the Duracell. edthefox5 mentioned the Optima is cheaper, at Advance Auto - $169 online pickup at store. Is that cheaper than Duracell $179 installed (for the non-DIYer)?

    Just for clarification, did Den49 mean to answer "No" (rather than the "Yes" posted above)?
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,166
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    boxing day?(n)
     
  11. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    2,593
    764
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I'd still buy the Duracell. Warren Buffett can't be wrong.

    I still like the 4 year FREE replacement warranty. And, you are IN their data base. There's no need for a receipt.

    I've heard a lot of bad issues with the current Optimas.
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,525
    8,429
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You are just wasting your time and risk getting stuck if you don't get a new battery. The battery's capacity is no longer at it's peak and won't hold much if it's reading 9.xx volts now. Even if you charge it up, it'll died fairly quickly.

    For under $200, you can get a new battery and continue on your way without worries of charging with a tender. Unless you like checking the voltage and charging your battery every few days, not to mention also being stranded, I would highly suggest you just buy another battery and move on.
     
    edthefox5 and Mike500 like this.
  13. Den49

    Den49 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    498
    268
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I misread your question. Change "Yes" to "Probably not".
     
  14. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I'm not sure where you read that. The Prius doesn't use a trickle-charge system, and the duty-cycle for the 12V battery under normal operation is very light. Attaching a trickle-charger to your 12V aux battery every evening is sure to shorten it's life.

    I've never seen anything which shows any benefit to "topping-up" the 12V aux battery.
     
    TsKarma likes this.
  15. rifis

    rifis Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    41
    13
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Thank you.
    Just to be clear, the 9.7v reading occurred 2 days before my first post here. I realize my opening post could have been clearer.

    1. No problems before Dec 2014. Car use once every 3 to 4 days, 6 or so miles roundtrip. Near end of first week in December: interior lights left on for 36 hours. When discovered, car started up fine. No investigation done.

    2.Dec. 26 evening: try to start up car for first time in 3 days. Get "parking lock malfunction" warning; car won't start. I find Priuschat, and read about it. Borrow a multimeter (never used one before). Measure 9.7 at posts. Car starts using "emergency start fuction" described in manual. Go for 8 mile drive. Park in garage; measure 12.54v right after turning it off.

    3. Dec. 27 morning: measure 12.29v. Car continues to sit unused.

    4. Dec 28 morning: measure 12.23v. Car sits unused.

    5. Dec. 29: (these are new measurements - the last 24 hours - I'm first reporting now): Measure 12.01v in morning. Use car; travel 4 miles roundtrip, with 1 hr. stop halfway through. Immediately at end of roundtrip, measure 12.64v. 30 minutes later: 12.32v.

    JC91006, do you judge the battery to be unhealthy because my 9.7v measurement was a SIGNAL that it is unhealthy (ie: a HEALTHY battery subjected to the same temporal sequence of "interior lights left on" stress, and previous/subsequent low car use pattern, would NOT have declined to 9.7v on Dec 26 evening, after attempting to start the car)? Or, are you saying that battery discharge down to 9.7v CAUSES an unhealthy state from which it cannot recover?

    I now realize the timeline in my opening post was presented in a very convoluted manner.
     
  16. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,525
    8,429
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Your 12v battery is definitely bad if you went from 9.7volts to 12.54 volts after a 8 minute drive. It takes a lot longer than that to charge up the battery. Whatever goes up, must come down.....just as fast (well maybe not 8 minutes).

    Yes I still believe you should just replace your 12v battery and be done with it.
     
  17. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    3,873
    1,871
    1
    Location:
    Trumbull, CT
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    Richard (the OP),

    You have had 5 years out of you current 12v battery and you can expect 5+ years out of a replacement so just get one. I still feel that the replacement should be a vented AGM and there are several ones available:
    • OE - I believe that Toyota is now distributing an Exide replacement battery now in the US and that model is available at a reasonable price.
    • Optima Yellow-Top - I have one in my 2004 Prius and have been quite satisfied with it at $175 on special. Of course, my experience with the old Toyota battery was that it was still usable after 8 years and over 200k miles (it still hols a charge today and I use it to start my ancient home generator).
    • Your find of a Duracel branded battery may be good but I would only use it if it were compatible with a vent tube.
    Good luck.

    Jeffd
     
  18. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    1,584
    257
    0
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    You are over-analyzing this.

    The low voltages that you are measuring, along with the short time it takes to get down there are all indications that your battery has lost most of it's capacity to store a charge and give it back when required.

    It is just old and tired.

    Running them WAY down hastens their death and can in itself be fatal to an old battery.

    You need a new (AGM) battery and a small automatic charger to attach to it once a week or so just for good measure.
     
  19. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,525
    8,429
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    If the op didn't need a charger for the past 5 years, he won't need one with a new battery. These are maintenance free batteries
     
    DoubleDAZ likes this.
  20. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    It's a good bet that Warren Buffett knows how to make money by investing, but that doesn't mean every company he invests in has the strategy of building customer loyalty by building the best-quality products. There are plenty of other strategies, including having a virtual monopoly, or squandering a good reputation by cutting costs and reducing the quality to take a greater margin. I'm sure he knows how to take profit from an investment while money's to be made, and he dumps it before it becomes a liability.