RIP PiP?

John how 60 cents a mile? What's your elec cost out there?

EDIT: I meant 60 cents/50 miles

 

not .60/mile, 50 miles for .60, i get 60 miles for .50, .16/kwh and 10=20% less in winter. check out the sticky spreadsheet. ymmv

 

If I were to take advantage of the special discounts for plugging in at home, it's only 4.5 cents per kWh. The norm is just 11 cents. So, a realistic/typical full charge is 2.75 kWh, which comes to 30 cents. Figuring 12 miles per, that brings us to $1.25 for the 50... still half that of gas.

The true advantage/persuasion really doesn't emerge until gen-2. But this is a good start.

Remember, it's not dollars alone that makes it a better choice.

 

Isn't this thread about the future of PiP?

 

i think doug made the future of the pip look bright!

 

I charge once a day, and get about 15 miles per charge. 15 x 365 = 5,475 EV miles. It takes about 3 kW to fully charge at $0.18 per kWh which is what I pay. So my cost per EV mile is 3.2 cents per mile, versus gas at $3/gallon and 50 mpg is 6 cents per mile. So I save $153.30 annually. At $4/gallon, I would save $262.80 annually. Gas would have to be $1.60/gallon for the break even point, so I charge whenever I can. My annual savings are also conservative because I can take advantage of free charging about 10% of the time.

So you're correct that it would take a long time to recover a PiP surcharge. But like I said before, I bought the PiP for less than a regular gas Prius (just under $20K + TTL after all rebates). Therefore, for me there was no "PiP surcharge" to recover.

 

agreed, but current technology doesn't lead to obsolescence, it leads to better technology. the current pip can't be judged against current gassers, they been improving for 100 years+.

 

You can use whatever you want for a baseline. PiP isn't for you. PiP was for me. For the 3rd time (which you always fail to quote), there was no PiP surcharge for me, so there's no question that it was cost effective. If you want to dollars and cents, it's unusual but true that my car cost less brand new than a used one would have.

And thanks for the correction on the math. I'm not complaining, because it's still money saved, and still a conservative estimate given 10% free charging available to me.

 

You do realize, your OP compared a $30k PiP to an S60 at $80k and then proclaiming RIP PiP. Both are not good comparisons as they are unlikely to to be cross shopped.

Overall, though, I agree with you. The technology is not mature enough. That's why the government gives us solo HOV and generous rebates. But that is no reason to proclaim the PiP dead. When the first gen Prius came out with it's 45 mpg and <$2 a gallon gas prices, I thought only idiots would buy it. You save no money. Now, I own a PiP and my numbers concur with se-riously. There is no surcharge to own one for me... unless gasoline remains under $3 a gallon. FYI, I get 70 mpg including electricity with a 53 mile per charge commute, much longer than most people's commutes.

 

I'm envious of what some of you are paying for power. I'm in PG&E land in the SF Bay Area, and I would pay over $.30 per kWh to charge a PIP. It makes no economic sense for me to change to a time of use plan since I need A/C during the summer. Solar power doesn't make economic sense for me either.

 

That's about right. Using the fueleconomy.gov defaults for your 30k miles/year I'm seeing payoff in ten years/300k miles per the attached screenshot. That excludes any advantages in maintenance (few/no brake jobs) and possibly better reliability.

I think you're confounding one thing. People in densely populated metro areas will have short commutes with more city driving, not longer commutes.

The higher insurance premium also reflects a higher residual value (More value to insure), and my guess if the higher residual value of the Prius C is what someone is paying for. It's also the advantage if/when they sell the car or it's in an accident.

The insurance premium also won't always be $1000/year unless the driver has a really crummy record. It'd start at ~$1000/year and decline to ~$100/year at the end of a decade IME. It still eats up a big chunk of the gas savings, but not all of it over 10 years, and at 10 years the C will almost certainly be worth thousands of dollars more than the Mirage.

I'm not a middle aged suburbanite. I'm thirty+ living in a region with a population of 3+ million, and if a Prius C is less expensive for me then a Mirage, it's likely less expensive for the majority of drivers.

I suspect it's less expensive even for very young (~20yo) drivers even after the higher insurance premiums if you were to include the greater residual value. It'd be neat to throw in a spreadsheet to examine in detail.

 

my sole criteria for the PIP was th HOV sticker for CA, this saves me 20-40 minutes a day which is... priceless...

 

Here would be my rough approximation for EV vs. gaso miles:

Base case: About $4/gal gasoline is approx. equal to 25 cents/kWh in EV use

So if gaso = $2.50/gal equivalent elec cost per gal (approx.) = 25 x $2.50/$4.00 = 15.6 cents/kWhr

Of course you can beat this via hypermiling techniques or charging for free at work etc

 

I'll agree that the comprehensive & collision parts of the auto insurance will decrease over time but in NJ it is not 10% per year. I wouldn't expect the Personal Injury Protection portion to change much because the car in its tenth year can do as much damage as in its first year. Year to year I don't see much of a change.

 

what are your other assumptions to arrive at that ?

I found even in NewEngland with 3 freezing months I averaged 12.5 EV miles per charge so 50miles on 4 full charges.
(20-25% better in warm weather)
Using your 15.6 cents kWh that makes a bit under 50 cents per charge = bit under $2 for the 50 miles (or sub $2 gas)

reading through all these posts it seems pretty clear that there's a huge range of electric prices
Someone in WA was paying under a dime ! sweet, clearly makes a plug in worth it
Someone in SF stated 30 cents / kWh ?! no PiP for you !

 

^^^I am 12 cents/kWhr so gaso has to get down to $2 to be as cheap as elec. I might get a PiP someday but I hold cars a good many years.