Seeing a Porsche Cayenne up close yesterday (Wth, the Porsche medallion on the front of an SUV?!) prompted me to revisit my SUV thinking. SUVs aren't going to go away. The market for the true behemoths (Expedition, Navigator et al) will probably shrink. But, aside from MPG and low emissions, SUVs do offer the obvious virtues of maximum interior space and passenger-hauling capacity. To many, they offer the biggest bang for their auto-buying dollar. For purposes of this topic, I'll include minivans/crossovers, too. Some Prius owners also own SUVs and/or vans. Some of these may even own a Prius as a "counterbalance" to their bigger vehicles. To these people, the "need" is there. Now there are beginning to be hybrid SUV/van alternatives. Maybe you're thinking of getting one---or maybe you're held back by the emphasis on power over better economy. Maybe you've even test-driven a hybrid Highlander, Lexus, Ford or Mercury. If you have this need---or preference---and were to have only ONE vehicle, what level of MPG---and/or low emissions--- would it take for you to buy one? Do you think, or hope, a manufacturer might make an SUV or van that would satisfy you, now that you've owned a Prius?
My wife owns a 2005 Sienna Limited AWD, and the utility is better than my Lexus GX470 SUV! It has more room, it has power opening/closing side doors, a power opening/closing rear door, xenon headlights, front and rear sonar, laser cruise control, all of which are unavailable on the GX470. The Sienna can tow 3500 pounds too (The GX can tow 5000 pounds). The GX has more ground clearance and a spectacularly wonderful interior, awesome Mark Levinson sound system, electrochromic outside mirrors, a quiet interior, more expensive maintenance, and a thirstier drivetrain. It's my daily commuter, and I'm trading it for a fully loaded 2006 Prius package #8. The Prius gets 3x the fuel economy of my SUV and costs less to maintain. The Prius makes a better commuter for me, and with all of the gadgets package #8 provides, I will be satisfied, especially since we have the Sienna for our real utility needs. I looked at the Highlander Hybrid and was disappointed in the fuel economy numbers. It's a very nice SUV, no question about it. But after renting a Prius for 2 days, my standards for fuel economy are a bit higher now. I can't buy any new vehicle getting less than 40MPG. We will keep the Sienna until a hybrid version comes out. I hope the hybrid Sienna is powered by a 4-cylinder HSD powertrain (instead of V6) to maximize fuel economy. I think the newer battery technology coming out around 2008 or so should provide some nice MPG figures even for minivans. I would argue that minivans have more utility than SUVs.
I think you'll find a lot of PCers would dearly want a Sienna Hybrid. If I had a choice for a all-in-one vehicle to go shopping, take the kids, easy for the wife to drive etc etc I'd have an HSD drivetrain in a Mazda5-like MPV (Corolla Verso maybe?) that'll get at least 5.0L/100km (48mpg). It's big enough to fit 6 people comfortably as a people carrier (I can fit in the 3rd row of the Mazda5) but economical enough to use a daily driver.
Interesting to read this question, because to me it is all backwards. Our primary car is a Jr. SUV (Rav4EV) that has zero emissions. We bought the Prius as a giant step backwards in emissions/fuel economy from the "SUV" that we mostly drive. Crazy, eh? http://www.darelldd.com/ev/rav.htm
I have an older SUV and I'm in the market for a new SUV. Since I only put 3000 miles on my SUV last year, mileage isn't a huge consideration. I'm seriously considering an Acura MDX; it's a reasonable combination of power and economy. I don't know if I can justify spending $45k on something I only drive 3000 miles per year though. I can afford it, but it just seems wasteful. It might make more sense to consider something a couple of years old with a lot of mileage remaining on the warranty. I've never liked the Lexus RX - too small, weird dash and interior, poor visibility.
Don't have four kids or two large dogs. If I did, I'd purchase a van. Boat's too large to tow but if I owned a day-sailer or hauled serious loads, I'd chose a truck. If I wanted speed in a car, I'd race. Maybe a Lotus. If getting to climbing or white water sites, spelunking, backpacking or nature photography was my goal, then I'd order a customized Land Rover, with added fuel tanks. Screw the MPGs; survive the trip, make it back home. I'd seek pampering and beauty in a luxury car like a Mercedes or an Infinity or... You can't beat a hybrid car for fuel savings and lower emissions. The Prius fills daily commuting needs perfectly. Don't weigh over 250 pounds or stand at over 6'3" so don't need the interior space of an SUV, hybrid or not. Sports Utility Vehicles are for people who like to pretend they're driving. SUVs are just rolling living rooms.
I looked at the Highlander hybrid, and would have chose it over the Prius if: 1. They had put a 4 cylinder engine to enhance fuel economy over performance (who needs their SUV to go 0-60 in 7.1 seconds), and 2. They had updated electronics, like the Prius instead of the older Nav, cassette deck, halogen lights, etc. I like sitting up higher and I like the beefier frame and possibly enhanced safety and security. Like Technogeek, we also have an 06 Sienna for all our major hauling needs, and it has many, many neat features. Its too tall to easily use the roof rack (eg. putting sheet rock, 4x8 material, etc.) The Highlander is much lower and much easier. As it is, therefore, I'm waiting for my Prius to come in to get those tech features I want and the enhanced fuel economy.
For 95-98% of my driving, my 2004 Prius is all I could ask for. However, I have a hobby farm about 2 hour drive NE of Winnipeg, and winter road conditions being what they are - especially being at the end of a rarely used 4km gravel sideroad - the Prius doesn't cut it. Probably no car would cut it, with the exception of a Subaru Outback. Even in summer, the road conditions are quite poor, and most of the vehicle traffic is farm implements or large trucks. The ruts are sometimes deep enough I hear gravel scraping under my Prius, and it handles washboardy roads quite poorly. I've only gotten my Prius stuck once at my hobby farm, and that was on purpose to see just how far I could go into a drifted hard snow bank with winter tires. The car will push snow with the bumper, but once the flat underbody hangs up, the tires are suspended and you're stuck. If conditions are bad enough, I have the common sense to not go at all, or to rent something in 4WD. I refuse to take a pickup though, a truck with an empty bed is worse than useless, even 4WD. So far I've had a chance to rent the usuall Explorer, Blazer, Tahoe, Suburban, Expedition, etc. I've had friends go along in Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Ranger Rover, and Lincoln Navigator. I found the Explorer and Blazer, at least in trim offerings from rental companies, to be primative and I would not want to live with one. The Tahoe and Suburban are ok, so is the Expedition. Somewhat disappointing ride quality for such an expensive vehicle though. My co-workers with the Navigator and the Range Rover are always welcome at my hobby farm. I *really* like going for a ride in those vehicles, the air suspension is great on washboardy gravel roads, you don't even feel the ripples. At the most, I put on maybe 3,000km a year going out to my hobby farm. It really wouldn't matter to me if I drove that in my Prius or in an SUV at 1/5 the fuel economy. Due to the road conditions I'm just at the stage right now where I'm strongly considering a second vehicle. I'm leaning towards the Navigator, due to the air suspension. The one year lease returns are steeply discounted, and most have under 20,000km on them.
I'm sure the Escalade is a fine vehicle. However I refuse to purchase new any vehicle with steep depreciation, even though I tend to keep vehicles 8-10 years. As an example, around here an '05 Navigator with 20,000km - a lease return - can usually be purchased for $40,000-$46,000 Cdn, up to $30,000 off the MSRP when new. I really don't want 2 vehicles again, but at the rate I'm renting, it would almost be a toss to get a second vehicle. Or just sell my hobby farm, which is *not* going to happen.
this doesn't make sense to me. A giant step backwards? First off, unless you get your energy for the EV with solar panels, or you are getting it from nuclear energy I don't see it as much of a difference than the Prius as that sentence makes it out to be. Secondly, AT-PZEV rating is considered as clean as natural gas. I don't think its that much if a "giant" step if so much a step backwards. edit: I dont mean to sound imposing, but I just want this to be clarified in case my thinking is wrong.
I would definately consider an SUV in addition to our Prius if it met the following conditions: Hybrid Technology Minimum of 40 mpg Designed from the ground up to be a Hybrid and unique in character like the Prius, and doesn't come in a non-hybrid version. Non traditional design and styling - both interior and exterior latest and greatest gadgets towing capacity a mimum of 3500 lbs 4 doors seats 5-7 comfortably
You don't want much, do you? If all Toyota can squeeze out of the 2.4/4 Camry is 43/37, I don't think you'll find any SUV getting 40 MPG MINIMUM. To tow almost two tons and have a third row of seats (6-7 people), it'd have to be a V6. The best you might hope for with current technology is 32-35 MPG, I'd think. But if you find one, buy an extra one for me. B)
Maybe the new RAV4 with a 4 cylinder HSD Ã la Camry Hybrid. A hybrid with 10L/100km (city) or more is useless since I can get that kind of economy with a decent 4 cylinder (heck, the 306hp IS350 with a 3.5 litre gets 10.7L/100km city). Also, it has to have SKS. Why a $30k Prius has one and the $60k+ RX does boggles the mind.
I wish that GM would put a diesel, or manybe the variable cylinder engine in the escalade. The Prius is great and my primary car since I do most of the driving, but when the need arises, it is nice to have the extra space and comfort to transport several more people & their stuff.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(flareak @ Jan 19 2006, 09:09 AM) [snapback]193247[/snapback]</div> Ah. Well let me help clear that up for you in several ways. I make ALL the power for my car via PV on my roof. http://www.darelldd.com/ev/solar.htm And even if I were getting my power from the grid, I'd still be cleaner when the ENTIRE process from well to wheels is considered. Please realize that it takes as much electricity to make gasoline for a gas car, as it takes me to drive an EV the same number of miles. When that is considered, nothing else really matters in a discussion like this. Here's some gasoline info: http://www.darelldd.com/ev/emissions.htm and as I will bring up next... this isn't all about pollution for me either. Yup. Might be true as far as burning it goes. But again we are ignoring all the mess created by pulling the stuff out of the ground, and making fuel out of it. And the other part that's missing is where the fuel comes from (my issues with gasoline are not all about pollution - they include foreign policy issues and national security as well). I make my own fuel for the EV... and even if I got my power from the grid it would still be more than 99% domestic - and would still be better for the earth's environment. No problem. I always appreciate an opening to make some of my points.
An suv would have to offer the MPG and enviromental emissions of a Prius to get me to buy one... besides, I like smaller cars, they are MUCH easier to drive... For me, moving from a VW New Beetle to a Prius in a week or so is going to be a big change, the prius is a big bigger... Although I often drive my parents Nissan Armada when my family travels on longer trips, and that thing is monsterous... it is like driving an army tank... it is a big cahllenge to schitch back and forth from a beetle to the armada and back again.... Although Once I get my Prius in a week we will be taking my car and not the armada to Kentuckessee (western ky/tn border areas around Ft. Campbell/Clarksville)
I would never consider owning an SUV. I'm single and realistic. What am I going to do with all that room? Block the road like everyone else? No one can make an SUV get over 40 MPG these days, and that's a deal-breaker with me. About the only other car I would consider would be another Boxster, and that's only because I had permagrin while driving it.
I already own an Isuzu Trooper. It's slated for replacement with a Hybrid Sienna the DAY it comes out. Nate
I went from a Trooper, to a Subie wagon, to a Prius. Reduction in cargo space each time, but after considering the options I can live with that. If I need to haul a lot of stuff, I rent a box truck. My hybrid search began sort of conceptually aimed at a hybrid Sienna or Estima and once I found out they were being sold in Japan but not here [and doing in the neighborhood of 40 mpg] I was like, Wth? But staring into the surprisingly cavernous rear of a 3rd-gen Prius with the seats down was one of the big convincers. Oh, and I was looking at the Highlanders too but the fact that they're being sold as power wagons for way too much money was an immediate deal-breaker. . If a large interior space and decent ground clearance were combined with a very efficient drivetrain like HSD, I'd be *so* there. . _H*
