First Employment Contract (CPE) in France

I honestly don't feel it's fair. I can understand a grace period (Trial). But 2 years. I own/operate a restaurant and we have 90 days that we can get rid of someone w/out reason. Plus South Carolina is an 'At Will' state. So, I can terminate for any reason at any time, but they can still file for un employment.

~Shawn

 

The problem is that French laws severely restrict the ability to fire workers. So pretty much, once a company hires a worker, they are stuck with that worker. Therefore, businesses are hesitant to hire new workers without any work history, because they don't want to get stuck with a bad worker.

Therefore, unemployment is high for young workers, because no one wants to take the risk of hiring them.

So, this law is actually intended to encourage the hiring of young workers by reducing the risk that employers face when they hire young workers.

France is pretty much a screwed up country. This is just par for the course.

 

Ive been to france, so I can attest to the accuracy of Marlin's statement... France is a musuem-nation that has preserved itself rather than growing and evolving to compete in a global economy... I would never want to live in France (now the UK or Australia Id me more than happy to live in... )

 

"without cause" can mean a lot of different things. what i dont believe in is having an employer continue to employ unproductive people. problem is, production can be nearly impossible to quantify in most occupations.

factor in, willingness to work, energy used at work (taking into consideration the various physical capabilities of each person) and the outcome is almost always very subjective.

i have been at many jobs where employees were being tolerated by the company since they could not get rid of the person for one reason or another. i dont think no one "deserves" a job. if they are unable to prove their worth or maintain a certain level of competency, they should be let go.

the problem with new or probationary employees, is that a learning curve is always present. for some marginal employees, it comes down to wondering if they will ever "get it". this causes many to be fired "without cause". they are not necesarily doing anything wrong, they simply are not doing enough things right.

 

My daughter's school has an exchange every year with French students. I'm picking up some of the group from the airport on Thursday. Knowing of the unrest there, and our own chronic shortage of workers, I thought I'd ask some of them if they wanted to stay. I'll certainly ask them about recent events.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bgdrewsif @ Mar 28 2006, 10:54 AM) [snapback]231367[/snapback]</div>

France museum-nation, hardly; I beg to differ. I'm not sure where you lived or how long you've been in France and under what circumstances. Certainly not a perfect country, has it's problems as all do, including ours.

Personally, I have rather sympathetic feeling toward France, the people, culture etc. I do agree about certain preconceptions that one might carry on the initial contact with such diverse culture. I also recognize huge differences in-between regions of France, as Picardian has a completely different outlook than a person from Provence. I also find educated French way more cosmopolitan and far less insular than us. The life style is way more laid back and relaxed. The appreciation of quality is far more pronounced even if only in their culinary regional diversities that come with strict laws of protection. I equally pair it with Italian diversities. They live and enjoy life more hedonistically, we on the other hand tend to be more puritanical IMHO.

Having visited France on many occasions and living there for short spans of time (different regions), France still presents an astonishing amount of places of interests, stretching from Catalan Perpignon to Cote Opal, from Crozon Peninsula in Brittany to charming villages in Jura. It might take persons' life-span to appreciate it, pending on ones curiosities of course.

To suggest that it's 'museum country' is rather disingenuous. Well, unless one zooms through Paris, Loire Valley with it's abundant chateaux and Cathar remnants in Roussillon region, one might come up with such generalization.
I might say the same thing while visiting New York or Amish counties in Pennsylvania.

France still has very vibrant society with tremendous output of contemporary works of art and consumer goods. Seeing modern complexes in the vain of La Corbusier is not an oddity. One can find a wonderful examples of ultra-modern infrastructure everywhere from Exhibition Centre in Rouen to TGV. Globally very much engaged, trading everywhere with powerful banking institutions, dominating especially in their former colonial regions. Having huge financial investments in the USA and solid industries that re-adjust to global trends like all other industrilized nations.

Let's be eager to look deeper into other cultures before passing rather swift and shallow judgement. The politics may encompass rather long separate post.

 

It would be a damn good idea if the US adhered to treating workers with respect & rewarding them for being good employees. Instead, our "wonderful" corporations choose to sell out American workers in the name of saving money by sending our jobs to India, China, etc.

As to this at will crap- any employer that uses that to get rid of a good employee should be put out of business. I find "at will" and "right to work" states disgusting.

In all fairness, I also think workers that are lazy screwups should be gotten rid. I guess that eliminates about 99% of all federal, state, county, and city employees. You know which ones you are. Don't get mad. Honesty is a good thing.

France also has 5 weeks of PAID vacation for workers. So doed germany. The US only offers 2 or 3 in most cases. Here in FL I've met cheap employers that only give 1 week after working a WHOLE year. Can you imagine working for a schumk like that?

People should NOT have to worry about losing their jobs if they are good workers that do their fair daily.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Capt132 @ Mar 31 2006, 02:47 PM) [snapback]233001[/snapback]</div>

And, believe it or not, according to various BBC articles, 75% of French youth want to become public servants. :lol:

 

dsunman has a good point, we have had French exchange students stay with us and they were not what the media would have you believe. The people that ran some of the resturants asked us if we were Americans and couldn't wait to talk to us and made us feel very welcome. Having said that ( I hate it when people use that expression ) so, having said that, France is definately a socialistic society and in the scheme of things that is the worse system for competition and productivity. I got out of a union when I was a young man because I wanted my salary to be comenserate with my output and ability and not some union negotiator. It worked quite well, because I started my business and put into place my own principles for treating workers. Which was, give them a mission, pay them very well, and don't interfere. I found they would discipline themselves far more strictly than I would. They eventually bought me out, after 24 years, and made my life very comfortable. There were times I had to can rotten apples though and I could care less if they sued me or ran to the government. My point is the minute the government starts telling businesses what they can and cannot do, good or bad, things go down the tubes quickly. Witness France. Who the hell are a bunch of beaurocrats, lawyers and union officials to tell a business owner how to run his business? I am sure [you] agrees with me, because [you] is very smart.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 3 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]234284[/snapback]</div>

So what are you saying, that the French don't have private businesses???? If I am a banker and want to open a private bank in NYC, I will face as much regulations as I would in Paris. In terms of taxation it might be another issue. I know plenty of French people having private enterprises and socialism is irrelevant in this case as they proclaim themselves as business owners.
What about all these people who work for US government, aren't they socialists??? The government is the third largest industry in the US.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 3 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]234374[/snapback]</div>

France is a socialist society we are a capitalistic society. Both can have private enterprises, but obviously the tax rate are much higher there because the govt has to take care of you. An idea which I abhor. I suppose you might say the US govt employees are socialists - heaven help us! Look at what we have, Cinthia McKinney, Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy all very despicable characters.

 

Here's an article that describes France's employment contracts, which are at the heart of this issue...

Coming to terms: French job contracts

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(imntacrook @ Apr 3 2006, 09:56 PM) [snapback]234492[/snapback]</div>

Mr imntacrook,

I'd like to expand if I may on your statement, France is as captitalist as US is in terms of it's functioning market economy. The so called 'socialists elements' that are different from US, evolved in French society as a deliberate direction that the French projected upon themselves decades ago willingly. Of course there is a percentile of the French population that do aspire to the American take on social issues but clearly classified as a minority.