Gen II Prius Battery Solution? (140,000)

Will provide the update, as I need to see as well if it was a good decision. Was well aware of the $250 for warranty replacement - this was the same for both Prius Rebuilders & HVS and both were quite clear about this in their quotes.

 

balancedmds,

I would take $75 for an ECU. It looks like ebay has them from $60 to $200. I have verified that mine work unlike some of the cheaper ebay units that look like they just got yanked from a salvage car. If your interested I can recondition your modules for you. We would have to figure out the logistics but I think you could dissemble everything yourself and put the modules in a couple of flat rate boxes. It takes me about 36 hours to recondition a set but it restores all of the capacities back to >6000 mAh and then they get voltage balanced. Iv'e never done it this way before but I'm trying to find ways to help other Prius owners without just selling whole batteries like some of the other companies out there. If your interested email me thru my website and Ill get a price for you. www.texashybridbatteries.com

Matt Sauer
Owner/Operator
Texas Hybrid Batteries, LLC

 

My hybrid battery pack went out at 130K miles on my 2006 Prius as confirmed by the dealer. The dealer charged $90 for diagnosis and said replacement with a one year warranty would be approx. $3,300. My ears started ringing so I went home to ponder it. Through a Google search I found GreenTec Auto. I found some decent reviews for them online, so I decided to take a chance. They have the replacement in three options. I chose the middle one which is rebuilt with re-manufactured 2nd gen cells. $1,345 with an 18 month warranty. Next I had to determine how to get the battery installed. I called them and found out that they actually do at-home installations in my state (extra $400, well worth it). Their technician actually came out on a Sunday!! (I didn't have to miss any work) and replaced the unit in under an hour. He actually drove up in a company Prius and was very knowledgeable about replacing the battery pack in these cars. He was very efficient and appeared happy for me to watch to see how it was done. That was August 10 and my car has been perfect since then. I am currently getting 45 mpg driving normally. The total cost to me was $1,745.00 and, like I said, I didn't have the hassle of dropping my car off somewhere and getting rides back and forth or taking off work.

 

Guys, getting warranty from battery rebuilders is not good enough IMHO.

6 month - If I were in your shoes and being offered that kind of warranty - I would assume that that is exactly how long it would last - not any longer. Perhaps 6 months and will die. So price you are prepared to pay for that should be reflective of that 6 months period.

The reasoning is as follows.

Say re-builder does due diligence (many do) and put into the pack all modules with the same load tested capacity (using for example our High Voltage Analyser) then charged, load tested the pack, conducted live test drive on their test vehicle. For doing that they would need a pool of modules, huge pool - with known tested capacity.

Did they ever mentioned to you what is the REMAINING CAPACITY of that re-build pack is?

Think logically: when you buy second hand car - you look at the odometer and perhaps thinking - if the ODO is 100.000 miles - the engine may be able to run for another 100k without overhaul.

But when you buy professionally re-built battery - why being too shy to ask what the remaining capacity is, measured at about 6.5A load (as rated, bear in mind at lower current capacity will be higher - some rebuilders use RC charger capable of 1A load and they sometimes are getting 7AH out of the pack - not right representation)

Suggest for your feedback the following pricing and warranty guidelines based on the remaining capacity measured at about 6.5A

e.g. - linear drop of $100 per 0.1AH, 12 Month above 5AH and 6 month between 4 and 5 Ah, and no warranty below 4AH, something like this:

Capacity, Ah RRP, $ Warranty

6.5 - $4,000 - 12 Months
6.4 - $3,900- 12 Months
6.3 - $3,800 - 12 Months
6.2 - $3,700 - 12 Months
6.1 - $3,600 - 12 Months
6.0 - $3,500 - 12 Months
5.9 - $3,400 - 12 Months
5.8 - $3,300 - 12 Months
5.7 - $3,200 - 12 Months
5.6 - $3,100 - 12 Months
5.5 - $3,000 - 12 Months
5.4 - $2,900 - 12 Months
5.3 - $2,800 - 12 Months
5.2 - $2,700 - 12 Months
5.1 - $2,600 - 12 Months
5.0 - $2,500 - 12 Months
4.9 - $2,400 - 6 Months
4.8 - $2,300 - 6 Months
4.7 - $2,200 - 6 Months
4.6 - $2,100 - 6 Months
4.5 - $2,000 - 6 Months
4.4 - $1,900 - 6 Months
4.3 - $1,800 - 6 Months
4.2 - $1,700 - 6 Months
4.1 - $1,600 - 6 Months
4.0 - $1,500 - 6 Months
< 4 - By negotiation - No warranty

 

^^
Why do you start a 6.5 Ah pack at $4000 when new OEM is ~ $2000 in many US markets ?

 

I just proposed the approach - to associate the price with the remaining capacity.
In New Zealand the price for the new pack starts from $4000 NZD from Toyota plus installation fees.
That table could be adjusted to the local markets.
Revisiting the table - perhaps not $100, but $50-$75 drop per every 0.1AH decrease in capacity if starting from $2000.
If that make any sense..

 

We have also had a battery replaced by High Voltage Solutionz (located in FL), and it went bad within the warranty period, but they will not honor the warranty. We had to purchase a battery elsewhere, and have lost the money paid to High Voltage Solutionz. I would NOT recommend them. Have filed complaints with Attorney General and BBB.

 

^^ I told you guys to avoid any company that cannot spell.

 

The warranty on their site says as of today (5 Jan 15): "If for any reason your replacement hybrid battery ever shows a triangle error light and fails within 18 months of purchase, we'll be glad to exchange and send a fully charged replacement battery pack to you." Straightforward, isn't it?

I was inspired recently to read line-by-line "36-month warranty" which has been published by another US battery re-builder on their web site. Not naming as it is not the point. The point is - do you realise as a client what is covered and what is not?

It took me few seconds to realise that 3 year warranty they are offering has in fact no warranty on battery performance you might expect. Bluntly speaking it sounded more like (I am exaggerating here) - "We guarantee you that we have tightened all the bolts and nuts and the pack will not fall apart within 3 years. But if you car will throw error codes because of gradually developed imbalance - i.e. some modules did have less capacity than others, or because we sold you the pack of low capacity and it just died - then, bad luck, we did not warrant that." - How does that sound? Not cool.

I've started receiving lately questions from garages who realised the pattern:
- "Would it be possible straight after the load test on the HV Analyser" to get the results of the test (graphs) in colour before and after the rebuild?" And the answer is yes. Copy paste them into invoice if you wish.

Combination of test results with even shorter warranty (3-6-12 month) would in my opinion be a good foundation for decision making on both sides - for client when ordering and for the garage when deciding on the duration of the warranty/price. It is not a secret that some packs are re-build just to allow car to be drivable for a short period, hence shorter warranty could be requested/offered.

One garage shared an opinion that they may not reveal tested capacity to the client on the ground that client does not understand the metrics but they said that if they can test the Prius battery pack for capacity and it is good enough (e.g. 5AH) - they will give 12 months warranty with no hesitation. They were reluctant to consider longer warranty. Currently they do not test, just put packs from fresh wrecks, provide 6 months warranty and promise to change to another pack if things go wrong. In that scenario - they are reluctant to buy unknown packs and only use those from the cars with known ODO/year.

Many people nowadays understand when they go shopping for the spare laptop battery that the LI-Ion with 4.0 Ah label should last longer than another one with 2.0 Ah.

What makes people be so naive accepting the warranty and not asking for Prius battery parameters? Prius is just a bunch of computers in a shell on wheels.

 

Summit auuto racing 1307+ 975 core after core return 1307 that what I pay 36 month unlimted miles

 

Realise that you have had a good experience , so far, with your reconditioned battery. What has it been now? 3 Months?

 

[Qmonths 3400 miles happy. Camper"dolj,month

3 monhs
t: 2121398, member: 91627"]

Realise that you have had a good experience , so far, with your reconditioned battery. What has it been now? 3 Months?[/QUOTE]
3400 miles 3 monh

 

Update: it's February 2 and the battery pack is still doing fine

 

It is 7/10/2015 and still no communications from Abe Sokol, Mark Sokol , Prius Rebuilders, or Falcon Hybrid Solutions about my defective battery. It has been well over a month since I informed them about the failure of my battery. They said 5-7 days to build a Gen I battery, but Abe emailed that they were thinking about putting together two and one of them would be mine. When he contacted me a week ago I had already given up on them and had a shop in Ft Walton R&R the battery and they replaced two bad cells. 1/2 of the rest were marginal and 1/2 were a little better, but they showed me the problems built in by the Sokols. Bulged and warped cells that were not screwed in since there wasn't enough clearance, untreated corrosion etc.
If you are tempted to do business with them to save that 50% Mark Sokol is so proud of just remember I got 1 % of the life that I got from ny original battery! A very bad deal.
I am posting every day during my break to make sure that the word is out on these guys. One would think that they would at least reimburse me for the work I had to have someone else do to get their scrapped together battery back in service! I hope I at least get some service from my $1850 + invested! Do not make my mistake yourself. Stay FAR away.

 

I gave them free advice 3 months ago which by the look of it has not been taken seriously. Reposting partially here:
.....
2) Do not Fudge, your customers would not appreciate that:
Quote: “..Is not true and is not on our website , we have never been able to bring a used module back up to factory spec…”: end of quote
I did not made it up when I quoted your site. You have edited your site to correct previously claimed, but, you see, Internet keeps traces of everything.
Here is a screenshot, still searchable in Google of your previous statement: Imgur
And this is what you have corrected as of recently after my post: Imgur
.......
3) Honesty is what I admire in business:
Quote: “…On the other hand the busbar is usually not the weakest link most of the time…”
You admit that. That is great. I take is as if you agreed that that nickel plating is just a nice thing to have.
Honesty is what gives customer hope even if business had made a mistake.
Remember I am still happy to help you. I am analyst. People pay me $$ do conduct business analysis. You’ve just got one free of charge. You do not owe me. You owe to your customers....
I wish you can improve and turn my feedback into something positive. Good luck!
.............

 

Cells removed from a battery rebuilt by Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid Solutions in February 2015. This battery had in initial red triangle fault upon receipt, but driving the car a while temporarily cleared it. It failed again a month later. No respons for a warranty replacement from Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid Solutions or other considerations and almost no communications after a month of waiting. I had some guys at Beach Cars in Ft Walton FL. check it out and changed tow bad cells. It was bak running, but a little weak. I lucked upon a GEN 1 pack from a wrecked Prius that had been replaced with a new Toyota battery in 2010. I bought that battery which being relatively new was better than the poor battery performance from Prius Rebuilders. Their battery still has two weak cells. The measurements from this morning (7/12/2015) are as follows:
I measured the cells as removed yesterday Measured this morning)
1 - 7.84 16 - 7.83 31 - 7.68*
2 - 7.88 17 - 7.83 32 - 7.83
3 - 7.86 18 - 7.81 33 - 7.85
4 - 7.84 19 - 7.83 34 - 7.85
5 - 7.89 20 - 7.84 35 - 7.89
8 - 7.82 21 - 7.65* 36 - 7.90
9 - 7.90 22 - 7.82 37 - 7.89
10 - 7.83 23 - 7.83 38 - 7.88
11 - 7.83 24 - 7.91
12 - 7.82 25 - 7.83
13 - 7.83 26 - 7.82
14 - 7.81 27 - 7.85
15 - 7.83 28 - 7.82

I measured these this morning and marked the ones I think are weak with red above. My Guess is two better cells would make this a good battery for a GEN I with GEN II cells, but I am no expert. The way I see it is that Prius Rebuilders has about a 10.5 % failure rate on selecting cells for their rebuilds. With 38 cells they are almost guaranteed to have bad cells in their products with little or no after build testing. A very bad bet for their customers. I replaced two of them already and there are two to go as I figure it.
At least these are the numbers from a running battery just removed. At 7.1 volts the cells will fault and throw the P3006 code. (I think)
The cells I had replaced measured below 6.8 volts.
To fix the "new" battery I had to use the cable on the front from the battery blocks to the battery ECU and the ECU and these parts will be missing. The rest of the cables and the master relay are installed. Included is to cover and the bad parts from the other battery.
With a 10.5% cell failure rate you are almost guaranteed to have one or more bad cells in any pack you purchase rebuild from Prius Rebuilders / Falcon Hybrid Solutions. A very bad bet! I have this battery with all of this information for sale on Ebay :

Prius Gen 2 Battery Cells | eBay

As noted above what you do when you make a mistake is how you are judged. Anyone can have a failure, but if you don't do anything about it then shame on you. This company deserves to die it's natural death from poor service and poor product and willful neglect of their customers.