1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Mileage

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by [email protected], Mar 25, 2006.

  1. ronrlp@gmail.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    9
    0
    0
    So, here's the story.
    Picked up car 12/12. We now have 3100 miles and have never averaged more than 38 miles per gallon.
    I have read every posting regarding fuel economy on this website and understand that a break-in period may be required. I don't know what needs to be broken in ......... this is not a high compression engine, the bearings and rings don't need to be seated by use, so I guess the break in period is for the new Prius owner to learn the ins and outs of the car.

    Enough of that, these are the details.
    I live in a Southern Califorina so climate is a minimum issue.
    I live on a hill that is approx. 3/4 mile to the base. The car is garaged.

    My wife drives daily to yoga:
    Start car,"ice" comes on after 1 minute. Back car out of garge w/ice still running. place car in drive nudge the accelerator to start forward motion and actually brake most of the way down the hill. The mileage never goes above 25 mpg if the "ice " does not shut down.
    The next part of the trip is on surface street for 1 1/2 miles with 3 traffic lights.
    Now the avg/mpg is 28.
    The return 2 hours later is 23 mpg.

    If the "ice" is allowed to shut down prior to the start of the first leg the avg/mpg for both directions increases to 34.

    On trips of 15 or more miles I have gotten as high as 54 mpg on segements.
    The fact remains that I have averaged less then 40 mile per gallon, using every method of calculation, for 3100 miles.

    Sorry to have rambled, but my friend in Phoenix gets an average of 48 mpg, I'm frustated.
    Thanks for any imput????
     
  2. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    1,805
    0
    0
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US)
    I don't think you are doing anything 'wrong'. Multiple short trips will keep your MPG low.

    Bicylce to Yoga ? (Seriously)
    Take the Prius's poor short trip FE as an offer to exercise a bit.
     
  3. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    466
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    short trips really kill your mpg. when i lived 2.5 miles from the university i had a hard time breaking 42 mpg. now i'm up to low 50s with a longer commute.

    the uphill drive on the way home also knocks down your mpg.

    maybe an ev switch would help you out while you're going down that hill...
     
  4. unruhly

    unruhly New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    205
    0
    0
    First off, don't get frustrated. I know it is frustrating, but I don't think you or the car are doing anything wrong.
    For the first 5 minutes of each trip you will expreience mileage that is lower than norm as the system gets up to temp.

    Just keep in mind that this is inherent in all cars (used to be called "Choke") but you are getting better mileage than most other cars under the same circumstances.

    My commute is 30 miles each way, and because of this, I am able to average out the poor economy readings obtained at the begining of the ride.

    If you haven't looked at the "New Owner Help" check it out here: MPG Help

    Take a couple of long easy trips and see what you get.
    Good Luck.
     
  5. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona

    with a hill like that??? even i wouldnt do that. im a fair weather, flat terrain rider...
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Short trips are killing you, short and simple.

    You might save a little grief and gain a little mpg with a EV button to avoid ICE start up for the initial down hill part, but maybe not too since it's likely the ICE would still need to start before you arrive at 'Yoga'...or where ever.

    There's no cure for short trip low gas mileage, the ICE must warm up as must the Catalytic converters and such. 2 hours at yoga is plenty of time for the ICE to cool off to 'room temp' and thus force the entire start-up cycle again.

    Clearly your longer trips demonstrate that the EPA numbers are possible with your car so it's not a problem there.

    Break-in involves many things...driver, tires, the various bearings and such, etc. I don't think you'll notice a great improvement in your mileage even at the 6k mile break in mark with that commute tho'. Summer temps will help.

    Be sure to read my article (pinned at the top of the Fuel Economy forum) and be sure you have the tires properly inflated and recheck them at least once a month or more. Be sure the AC isn't being used too agressively...if you can turn it completely off for your short commute that will help.

    Learn how to feather the pedal to trigger the ICE to shut off once it is adequately warmed up...I find I can achieve that in about 1/2 mile driving in warm weather.
     
  7. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    466
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    oh come on Dave. shift it into low gear and huff and puff your way up. ;)

    my typical track has a huge downhill in the beginning. which means what goes down must go back up to get to the car, even when exhausted from miles of riding :lol:
     
  8. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    i do most of my riding on an abandoned railroad track that was converted to a walking/riding trail...so therefore, i officially can handle whatever grade a choo choo can...

    that would be about what??...3% grade? if its more than that, i reserve the option to edit my last statement
     
  9. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    19
    0
    short trips and the time between restart is what's killing your mileage just like my wife's last tank with multiple short trips and 2 restarts in the middle of one of them with 35 minutes in between. Result last tank averaged 33 mpg US. yet I've driven that car on long trips and made 54 mpg US. Evan and the others have nailed it. Dont' feel bad, it's the way it is and don't try the same thing in a H2 Hummer I'm sure it'd be about 7MPG Your probably a good candidate for a block heater if her time to leave is about the same every day.
     
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    3,000
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I just want to get some clarifications. So your wife waits in the car for a min until the ICE come on? And then back out of the garage? For me, I just step into the car and when the "Ready" light comes on, I put into "D" and take off. I figure the thermal bottle will take care of engine warm up process.
    That's strange. In my car, when ICE is warming up, if I don't press the accelerator pedal and the car is coasting around 15 mph, I get 50 mpg.

    Make sure the emergency brake is released.
    When she returned 2 hours later, the average went down from 28 mpg to 23 mpg? How is she powering off the Prius? Did she simply put the car in "P", lock and leave?

    Dennis
     
  11. ronrlp@gmail.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    9
    0
    0
    I love my 2006 pkg 8 Barcelona Red Prius w/ grey leather interior.

    Yoga mat, towels, water, energy drink, handbag bike to yoga you've got be kidding!!!!!!


    I'll try to answer these questions in order .........

    It takes 1 minute for the ICE to come after start botton is pressed. When ICE is running and the car is coasting in drive down the hill ithe mileage indicator registers less then 20 mpg. I now have my wife wait until the warm up cycle is finished and then leave the mpg then moves into the 99.9 mpg range while coasting down the hill. If the ICE should restart the mileage falls back down to 25 mpg or less coastin or not..

    The emergency brake is not engaged.

    The return trip shows less mpg because of the climb back up the hill. I have actually watched the accumulated average mpg drop by as 6/10ths of a mpg when driving up the hill at 10 miles per hour. This shows less then 10 mpg on the up hill leg of the trip.

    No to the park question.

    We did have an SUV that got 15 mpg, that's why we bought the Prius. Well it's a great gadget too, fun to drive and environmentally friendly.


    I guess I think that a little 4 cylinder engine should average 40 mpg without the hybrid assist.

    Some additional ops info:
    The lights, keysless system and fan ( no air conditioning ) are always on.
    The battery charge indicator is rarely in the green, most often it is at about half.
    The only time I can maintain EV mode is when I have green on the indicator.

    Thanks for all the imput.
     
  12. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,041
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You drive it in "D", right, never in "B"?

    Uh, no. Turn on the car and drive away immediately. Do Not sit there waiting for the engine to start or stop, or whatever. Any time spent waiting for it to warm up uses energy while going nowhere; in other words, zero MPG for that time, which reduces the overall average MPG. The best way to warm up a Prius (or any car) is to drive it.
     
  13. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,041
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Engines don't have MPG values. A system of engine plus car plus driving habits yields an MPG value.
     
  14. Begreen

    Begreen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    670
    10
    0
    Location:
    Western WA state
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A

    Rent a tiny car like a Metro or if you can a Toyota Echo. Use the car with the same routine and I think you will find it averaging about 25 mpg. Short trips are killer, especially with the all-uphill-return route. We also are getting low-mileage in spite of following all suggestions wrt air pressure, oil, etc.. This is because we do mostly short trips, a lot back and forth to the high school. Our typical route is the opposite of yours in that it's mostly uphill to get to the school and downhill to return. Our return route mileage is great, the car is warmed up and there are good glide opportunities. But it is negated by the initial, cold engine, uphill run. But hey, our Honda only gets 20 mpg in winter doing the same run, so we're not concerned.

    Actually, for both of our current driving styles, a total EV vehicle or a Prius EV mode powered by a big LIon battery pack would be ideal. Someday soon maybe?
     
  15. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    19
    0
    I put all my stuff in the car get in sit down do up the seat belt start the car and drive. I've never let my car sit and warm up unless it's 30 below F. Until then start and drive, if really cold drive slowly, if your burning gas that car has to be moving. I bought the gas to get places and if the car is sitting there it's off. I've had that though and used it for over 40 years of driving.
     
  16. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You need some alternative input data. Go take a longer drive!
    Tool around the countryside for a couple of hours, and see how
    your 5-minute segments stack up then.
    .
    _H*
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,244
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I thought the engine comes on after 15 seconds unless it's super cold or the defroster is on, then it comes on immediately.

    ronrlp,

    This car is 1300kg, 300 more than an Echo and about the weight of a tC so the engine won't get the same mileage as an Echo even though it's the same engine running on the Atkinson cycle.

    Hmm, I know this isn't legal but trying going in neutral, you'll see the mpg jump up a bit cause the engine's spinning freely rather than trying to charge the battery at the same time. The downside is that if you brake, you're using the friction brakes rather than the electric motor.

    I'm surprised that it takes so long to warm up in a mild climate. I remember it shutting off very soon after startup during the summer.
     
  18. Bill Lumbergh

    Bill Lumbergh USAF Aircraft Maintainer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    537
    7
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Not a high compression engine? 13.0:1 is pretty high! It does need a break-in, too....but everyone else is right...the short trips and the incline are kiling your mileage. I just took a trip around town taking some Prius photos and I got my first 100 MPG bar in a long time by slowly cruising city streets.

    Too bad all my pics came out bad because it's so muddy here right now.
     
  19. prez1

    prez1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    73
    0
    0
    Location:
    decatur, illinois
    We just picked up our 2006 Prius last Thursday, have driven it about 300 miles, and it is averaging 45.4 mpg. Still getting used to it, but love it so far. It seems easy to bury the gauge at 100 mpg once you get the hang of it. Central Illinois is pretty flat, though, so we don't have to contend with a lot of hills. I'm driving it to St. Louis in a few weeks, so I'll see how it does on the highway. Good luck on solving your problem.