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Is My Car Reporting Data

Discussion in 'Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by almhath, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

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    I think you might be assuming that they couldn't track it. :D But then again, just because the news reports it, it must be true.
     
  2. Rob.au

    Rob.au Active Member

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    I'm not "uncomfortable" about it. It wasn't "unwise" for you to raise it. I completely disagree with your conjecture about EM signals from the car. That's fine. It should be fine for you, too.

    I work in the telecommunications industry and I'm passionate about it. I think use of data is a fascinating and important topic, but I'm constantly dismayed at both the utter scaremongering by the media (and even worse in sections of the Internet) and the somewhat cavalier attitude of some lawmakers and business on the other side. I think people should be talking about it and thinking about it. Personally I have very middle of the road views that are probably not shared by many at the moment. I think intelligent use of data brings a lot of benefit and adds a lot of value. I don't think use of data to increase profits is automatically bad or evil. I think these things can be done in a balanced way that benefits people without infringing their rights... but it's certainly fundamental to be open and transparent about it.

    In your case you just appear to be badly wanting to believe that your car is sending out "EM" data, but at a technical level what you're suggesting just is not feasible and that's completely ignoring the fact that any data your car might be collecting is frankly uninteresting to pretty much anyone other than automotive engineers. As people have pointed out, what appears to be the core of your concerns is already far more accessible by other means than your car nefariously spewing out data wirelessly. So you kind of have a trifecta happening there - technically unsound, bland data (oh look Rob.au's engine performance is looking a little out of spec) or (if you're worried about location tracking) far better means of doing that than expecting a car to be pumping out location data and other telemetry everywhere.

    No-one said you shouldn't post here... (as I say, I welcome it), it just appears you're unhappy that many people have voiced opinions to the effect that your conjecture about the car communicating isn't well founded, on a number of fronts.

    Maybe we're in denial. Maybe you're being irrational. I know where I stand and I know the basis for my opinion. One of us is wrong - but does it really matter? People can agree to disagree and move on... there's really nothing riding on this.

    I do hope you don't stake your decision of sticking around these forums on if you "win" this argument or not. Apart from many of us clearly not supporting you with this EM concern of yours, there's still plenty of useful information here on less contentious issues of day to day life with your car and how it works that goes beyond what's in the manual.
     
    #62 Rob.au, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
    ftl likes this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i disagree also, i hope my posts weren't taken seriously.:cool:
     
  4. almhath

    almhath Junior Member

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    Hi all,

    Thank you for positive comments.

    I've been asked many questions, and I don't think this is the place to respond to some. But to swing by a few:

    The airliner: That is NOT an issue of tracking an airliner, can they or do they, even over oceans... It is an issue of (1) can a calamity occur that could result in tracking systems failing, or (2) can a group of experts find a way to defeat tracking systems in order to (name nefarious act). It could be #1, but I suspect #2 may be more of a possibility. Even though systems are complex and sophisticated, measures and countermeasures are always an escalating issue.

    Some are raising the issue of Does Tracking Really Occur: I don't know, but I do know it certainly could. In referencing the nice, little, cheap, battery-operated, satellite-based devices that easily transmit GPS coordinates from anywhere on the globe, that includes mountain ranges and deserts, as well as cities as well as the wide ocean blue. Same for some phones that have that ability. I was not including the particular commercial system used as involved in the concept, per se, but that circuitry that can do that already exists, is small, cheap, and if you remove commercial aspects of a GPS emitter, the chips required could be quite small, including its local antenna. It could be powered off the car and made part of other, existing electronics in the car, such that it would be nearly impossible to find. Such would be the desire if (post Patriot's Act) considering pursuing terrorism. From a national security perspective, it would help track those nefarious. There's that word again. It's cost would be NEGLIGIBLE, cheap, almost non-existent, considering the cost of even a radio in the car, and the cost is included in the car's price, balanced for profit, no doubt. We're taking, what: $10? $20? Because it's just the chip, antenna..., no commercial facets to make it attractive to customers.

    Data collection/analysis? Easy, with modern supercomputers. And, computers are taking on the level of sophistication, these days---not of a data collection system monitored and run by humans, but of Artificial Intelligence: They're thinking for themselves more and more, able to handle larger bits, even those more vague.

    Importance of data? Seemingly innocuous bits of data add up, pieces of a puzzle that seem like nothing, independently, can make a beautiful picture when put together.

    Is it okay to be (whatever leading to a total loss of privacy) if we see no current ill effects? If we get a convenience for it? If some short-term benefit can be perceived? I hope so, because we're there. :) However, if the information is unidirectional (from people, up through various systems to the top), then the grace of that system would depend on the virtuosity of those in charge---not just now, but always, for ever more, as once the system is et up, the power imbalance would prevent a reversion, I'm guessing. I think, truly, that where those in charge need to be able to find criminals, where commerce or individual convenience may sometimes benefit from data-mining, it's also true that we would need just as much information on the leaders, so we know who we're putting in power. Leaders, through out human history, are not always---not even usually---as virtuous as many people would like to believe, and the consequences, made through current decisions, will last for a very, very long time.

    Clearly, technological advances make intrusions commonplace.

    I think society's awareness of consequences has not matured yet. A social awareness of issues involved will develop in time, hopefully before major problems result.

    I have faith both in the good nature of most people, a desire to live a happy life, to care for others, to make this world a better place... But I also have a concern about the virtuosity of systems and sometimes people/leaders, who find themselves in the position of too-much power, as it corrupts per Lord Acton's axiom: Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And information is power.

    Blessings to you all. These threads should focus more on the cars, however, what my car does is part of that.
     
  5. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

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    I think the main point everyone is missing is simple. There may be many things that people would like to post, but will not, because of the fear of being watched. I myself believe that every citizen should vote, pay taxes, and be a productive member of society. Unless you are breaking the law, I was taught to believe that what you do, where you go, and who you associate with (unless they are involved in some criminal activity), is private.

    However, our children, and future leaders, are not being taught the same thing. There is no longer an expectation of privacy and as almhath stated above, "...I also have a concern about the virtuosity of systems and sometimes people/leaders, who find themselves in the position of too-much power, as it corrupts per Lord Acton's axiom: Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And information is power."