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Is My Car Reporting Data

Discussion in 'Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by almhath, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Bluetooth can transmit 10 feet
    Wifi less than a block with an omni directional antenna
    (About 15 miles with a very directional antenna, but a car changes angle so frequently that would be impractical)
    Cell Phones need a tower within 10 miles.
    Curvature of the earth blocks signals over 22 miles, unless you have a tall tower.

    Before Big Brother can track your cars diagnostics, you need to invent a new technology that can power a strong antenna with a 12 volt battery. If you listen to FM radio, your station will occasionally announce "100,000 watts of power and the largest tower*" My car has neither.

    * The Most Powerful FM Stations

    I worked at a gold mine and actually DID track the diagnostics for every piece of heavy equipment, but I only had to worry about 4 square miles and the antennas were quite visible.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CIIBEBYwBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liebherr.com%2FME%2Fde-DE%2Fproducts_me.wfw%2Fid-14270-0%2Fmeasure-metric%2Ftab-9556_1509%3Ffile%3D~%2FcatXmedia%2Fme%2FDocuments%2FNTB_T282C_BT_US_08_10084-0.pdf&ei=EerFU9DwDMq2yASG7IHYBw&usg=AFQjCNF6uFomr8HH1DVAPNHgw32c4Fxzpg&sig2=3MSs2BphyARQ88qqMoHdDA&bvm=bv.71126742,d.aWw

    You can see an antenna on the drivers side mirror mast on page 1 and 2, page 9 discusses Wifi, Cellular, or LEO transfer of truck diagnostics.
     
  2. Mark323

    Mark323 Junior Member

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    if you can't sleep, please track my location info.... It will be so boring you will fall dead asleep.
    ...as follows, Home to work / work to home / 6X Days / Repeat ad nauseam
     
  3. almhath

    almhath Junior Member

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    :) I already did, and Yes.

    I don't do anything illegal in my house, but I do want to draw the curtains, sometimes.
    I don't do anything illegal in my bedroom, but I do want to close the door sometimes.
    I don't do anything illegal.... On and on.

    When I'm driving my car, I'm in a public place. But I still don't think it's wrong to just want to drive without being tracked. I okay doing some things that are tracked, but must I give in to all of it?

    The phone? I can leave it at home. Yes, it's possible, though I do carry it regardless.

    The idea has become that when you buy a device, it's the communal property of both the seller and the buyer, such that the seller has to maintain contact with it, know how it's being used, data-mine and sell data from it, and make promotional offers via it, etc. Thgere's even beginning a push to have such internet-based inter-communicative devices all through the home, including thermostats, light sockets, refrigerators, alarm systems, etc.

    My idea is that I don't want to do that. If I buy something, I like to just have it, use it, in peace.

    It's not that I drive anywhere wrong, funny, or bad; it's that I see potential social problems that can result from the loss of privacy. My training is in sociology, social work, etc., and I worked in the N.S.A. during part of the cold war.

    Think how the loss of privacy creates social change in this ONE example: Roe v Wade, abortion, was settled in great part because privacy was considered penumbric, under the constitution. So what if it's determined that we don't have that privacy any more? We go back to people risking their lives, seeking them in alleys, being dumped on the front lawn of a hospital? I'm an old social worker. Don't kid me about how it was. We going to need RFID chips inserted into our bodies to prove we're not doing anything wrong? And who watches the watchers?

    I live a gentle life. I don't harm others. I don't break the law, I even drive a Prius for the environment--I don't even drive to embarrassing places, such as the Republican National Convention could be. :) (making a little joke there.) But I do feel I should be able to find out if a device of mine reports on me, without taking a lot of conspiracy or paranoid crap from people.

    Is this what is has come to?

    If you don't want to be tracked, if you don't want to give up your privacy, then you're nuts? Paranoid? Your decades-long education is crap because you see problems that could occur?

    If you're into video, watch "The Majestic," with Jim Carrey, or any of a hundred others. Remember? For those old enough. Cultures come and go, but human nature hasn't changed throughout history.

    If all our communications and goings are monitored, then we're only doing whatever we do, talking about whatever we talk about, by the agreement of those who monitor. Society may only learn about this all after it's too late.

    But for now and for me, I'd just like to know if my car reports.

    It's as simple as the GPS onboard, sending a burst transmission when in the presence of a cell phone (anyone's), or any wifi system, or---yes, this is easy and possible---or even the burst transmission without those: low power, to satellite receiver, and yes, wkith LESS than a 12 volt system, though 12 volts are available.

    I checked: It's even illegal to buy a jammer, so I won't. So am I required to let myself be bugged? I'm allowed to turn the bugs off, but I'm not allowed to find out where they are?

    Thank you for those who give good info.

    Grow up, to those who would deride me for wanting to keep some of my privacy.
     
  4. almhath

    almhath Junior Member

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    No. I've had an F.B.I. file since I was 17, prior to getting my clearance and going into the N.S.A. I don't break the law. A while back, I got a traffic ticket for failure to stop at a stop sign, and I beat it because I proved the officer was wrong. I don't like to break the law. But I just don't want to give up all my privacy.

    I don't thnink a negative should be considered because someone wants privacy. Working for your own interests in social change is part of the democracy/republic we're supposed to be involved with, per President Jefferson, and I agree.
     
  5. almhath

    almhath Junior Member

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    If you ever did, you'd know why that question doesn't make sense.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i knew it.:cautious:
     
  7. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    By posting on this forum, you've already relinquished some privacy. The originating IP that posted the OP has already been tracked and logged. There is an interesting series of articles here about living off the grid.
    How to Disappear (almost) Completely: living off the grid

    1. Anyway, in answer to your question, you should've purchased a level 2 trim if you don't want to be tracked because that's very the definition of a navigation system.
    2. Satellite radio also sends out signals which can be tracked using clever tricks.
    3. I doubt bluetooth has enough range but I suppose a nefarious agent next door could glean some interesting information.
    4. The tires also transmit information wirelessly through TPMS.
    5. The car is continuously listening for the keyfob to detect if it's in the vicinity, while you drive and after you park.
    6. And then there is Entune but it only works through apps on a smart phone.
     
  8. Rob.au

    Rob.au Active Member

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    For what it's worth, I work for a telco. Somehow I suspect that won't ease anyone's conspiracy theories. ;):cautious::whistle::rolleyes:
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Private car.....Public roads.
    The original question is irrelevant in the US, and even more so elsewhere.
    The OP should rest at ease though, unless she/he takes the car to a dealer.

    If you drive on public streets, it's like surfing the net. Your expectation of privacy is (or should be) somewhat attenuated.

    I've been a telco and a military worker. Sometimes both.
    From my perspective, people who struggle furiously to "protect their privacy" usually wind up being a more interesting statistical outlier.
    Herd mentality.
    You want to be the gazelle in the middle.
    The view may suck, but you don't get to see if you can outrun a big cat or become bush-meat for some bi-ped with a large-bore rifle. :)
     
    #50 ETC(SS), Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
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  11. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    My understanding is that the base entune systems do not have any kind of wireless data modem other than bluetooth. They can only talk to the outside world if they are plugged in or if you allow them to connect through your cell phone. If you do connect it to the internet via your phone Toyota's privacy statement should apply, but what that's worth is pretty debatable.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we call it 'flying under the radar'.:whistle:
     
  13. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Put your obsession to good use ...
    Contact info NSA Recruitment...

    The Office of Recruitment
    Phone: 1-866-672-4473
    E-mail: [email protected]

    If you can't beat them, join them!
    or
    Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer!
     
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  14. almhath

    almhath Junior Member

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    No, hon. You misunderstand. I'm not working for the N.S.A. or any such thing. Sorry to mess up your fantasy.
     
  15. almhath

    almhath Junior Member

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    Hi. Thank you for getting closer to it. These posts are a difficult way to communicate, ideas being shared are brief and only by typing, so I know misunderstandings abound. I'm not interested in living off any grid. I'm well interconnected in society.

    I just began this thread curious to know if my car reports on me via EM radiation such as transmissions designed for the purpose, because my belief is that it's my car, not community property with other companies or agencies, and while I do generally take my phone with me/leave it on, while I do use credit cards, while I do have most of my curtains open at home most of the time, I just don't think that I need to give up all privacy all the time. And where I AM being monitored, etc., then I'd like to KNOW about it, as opposed to it being surreptitious. So I ask. And I put up with people who misunderstand.

    I'm aware that there are various forms of em radiations (tires, RFIDs, etc.) but I'm not talking about all of that.

    For those who think the technology is unavailable, rare, or hard to engineer (small, low-power device that could report position from anywhere on the planet to satellites), see
    Boaters have been using them for years. You're out in the ocean, you have a problem or want to stay in touch...

    Even if someone got a car without nav, it'd be a very small issue to build in something that would automatically report and place it in the car where most people would never find or learn about it, and it could be the size of a postage stamp, inserted into another piece of electronics for a negligible cost. So even cars without a nav system may have something like this. And Jammers are illegal to buy (so I won't).

    I think I'm just adjusting to the idea that privacy---a concept I was raised with---is a thing of the past. But even if so, I would like to know where, how and why.

    You got closer to it with the 2 trim and the navigation system purposes. I'm tending to agree with what you've shared, but I think that it's unlikely, in the current environment, that tracking would be left OFF because someone doesn't buy nav. The data is clearly wanted, collected, sold, marketed, etc., and devices

    I don't break the law. I don't go anywhere Im even embarrassed about. I don't even drive to some marital toy shop and buy vibrators... lol ...and if I did, I'd probably laugh to my neighbors about it saying I did. The truth usually disarms concern. I don't associate with law-breakers, etc., and, yes, I'm aware I'm monitored here. But I'm doing nothing wrong.

    I'm also sorry that this simple subject---does my car report data about me via em burst transmissions---is so poorly understood or welcomed. Most people want to be happy in daily life and go about their business, and feel uncomfortable when someone brings up such a subject, because they want to pretent it's not happening. Denial.

    So, even while I've learned a few things, I think maybe it was unwise to even raise the subject, and I should move on?

    It's sad, that it should be so. But thank you for those who tried to be helpful.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh right, of course you're not.;)
     
  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    They don't have to tell you where....how....why...because..............................it's 'private'~:)

    This question has been asked and answered.
    Your car doesn't have a secret transponder, and the NAV unit is passive.


    The SPOT messengers you cited are generally used in a maritime environment, and it would be silly to put something like that in 14 bazillion automobiles because (a) the Globalstar network almost certainly couldn't handle the traffic (pun almost unintended) and (2) it's probably 2 orders of magnitude more expensive than the GPS/cellular trackers that companies (like mine) use to track their employees.
    Besides.....unless you're a regular George Noory listener complete with Reynolds Aluminum hat, it's much easier to track you with plastic money and cell phones.

    Still....
    If you're the type that puts tape over their PC and phone cameras......
    You might want to crawl under your car frequently and look for non-OEM bugs and trackers.
    It's illegal to jam cellular signals but not so merely to (try to) detect them.


    Privacy isn't a thing of the past.
    We're each just one of billions of people on the planet, and we're not going to be here very long. ;)

    Good Luck!
     
    #57 ETC(SS), Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
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  18. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    I'd like to say you can ask any questions you want but unfortunately this kind of forum does not tolerate descent. You've sparked me into thinking about privacy.

    I'd like to ask you. Suppose you are tracked and you have no privacy. Then what? I'm not belittling you, I'd like to know what are negative effects of this. Here's my line of thinking.

    If I am not a criminal, the government won't find anything to incriminate me. If an entity wants to imprison me illegally, they can do so whether I have privacy or not. I.E. Guantanimo Bay

    Companies track my web browsing and target ads at me. We are already inundated with ads. I'd rather they target ads that are relevant to me like how Hulu does it. I'm not going to get more ads, I'll just get ads for things I am interested in. If I am smart, I won't start buying everything I see.

    Google Now tells me where I parked my car. Figured out where I live and work on its own. It even tracked how many hours I walked in a month. I find this information useful. Where is the negative? What is my privacy worth to me. Why is my privacy all that precious? I'd rather be tracked so that people can find me should I get lost. I still remember the CNET editor that got lost in Oregon during a snow storm. His car got stuck and he perished looking for help. His family survived only because they eventually triangulated his last cell phone signal. Everyone kept wondering why a tech site writer didn't have navigation in his car.
     
  19. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    The act is that Government agents are allowed to lie and use any evidence gleamed from those lies.

    It is NOT true the other way 18USC1001 makes it a Federal offense to lie to a Federal Agent. More often than not, the individual is charges and convicted of the "cover-up" than the crime, itself.

    If you want to keep anything a secret, "Don't share it with anyone else." The most efficient way to spread misinformation is to tell the individual that you are confiding it that it is a secret.

    The other false and naïve belief in conventional wisdom, is "If you are innocent and have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." Those are famous last words. We charged and convicted may of them who talked.

    The smartest individuals, when read "Miranda v Arizona," chose to remain silent.
     
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    People always seem to give my beloved government undue credit for efficiency.

    I'm thinking that if they cannot track a Boeing 777 dash 200ER that's flying all by itself over the IO then they're not going to have much better luck picking my little Prius out of the other 265,121,061 (est.) registered vehicles in the US.......and this is presuming (incorrectly!) that I would be important enough to bother with tracking. :rolleyes:

    Not illegal.
    Immoral, perhaps.