It's official Toyota is full speed fuel cells for compliance after 2014

"Range (High) Anxiety" is alive & well in Leaf owners:

What Leaf drivers chant to themselves as they drive "...I think I can...I think I can......get there."

 

No, Gassers use waisted heat, they do not use extra gasoline to heat the cabin.

Chevy Volt's HVAC system designed for grueling winter weather

 

That is what most people thought. Then the hypermilers discovered that cabin heat, even in ordinary gassers, increased fuel consumption. The engine burns more fuel to replace that siphoned-off heat and keep the engine at operating temperature.

This becomes far more noticeable in hybrids such as the Prius, where the higher engine efficiency and part time ICE operation leave much less 'waste' heat. Diverting some of that 'waste' to the cabin causes the engine coolant to fall below its minimum setpoint sooner, causing the ICE to cycle back on earlier, consuming more fuel.

The proportion is different than in BEVs, but the raw effect is present in gassers too.

 

Good deal!

A Leaf coming off of lease should be a good bargain.

Bob Wilson

 

I'd rather just let the Volt run on electric (if <40 mile commute) or gasoline (roadtrips). The EV will be cleaner per greenercars' well-to-junkyard estimates. Plus if you really hate foreign oil, then use electric choice to get CNG-powered electricity.

 

This driver started at 115 km range, drove 20 km with the heat on and ended his morning trip with 65 km projected range left; 50 km difference = 20 km of driving+30 km worth of energy use for heat+cold+..etc....

 

Just gotta get your priorities in order: HEAT or RANGE? RANGE or HEAT?

 

I'd correct that to heat or range. Even with the heat cranked on my Leaf in the dead of winter the mileage (equivalent) beats the prius. But the range decreases. I don't know any Leaf owner who cares that the cost per km goes from (roughly) 2 cents/km in nice weather to 4 cents/km in very cold weather, but many care about the decrease in range on a charge.

In my case we rarely drive the Leaf more than 50 km in a day, and in fact it's a fabulous vehicle for our cold winter conditions - the heat is instant and strong, and the car can be preheated on demand from a smart phone. The only concern in winter is that it gets plugged in every night rather than every other night in the summer. No range anxiety here, even when it's -25.

 

And if you only use a car for small trips, then wouldn't an EV be better ? I know the small engined cars we get here barely warm up (with the heating on) in winter before you arrive at your destination in 4 or 5 miles. A small engined diesel is even worse.

At least with an EV the heat is pretty much instant and also has the benefit of pre-heat.

 

Words aside, the ULTIMATE point is: (a) using WASTE heat is effective recovery, (b) using RANGE-reducing electrical power is IN-effective use of your motive energy.

 

Yeah you're right. We should continue to use a grossly inefficient way of propelling our cars that generates more heat than we can ever use vs using a vastly more efficient means and generating the heat when needed. My Leaf uses about 1/3 of the energy of my Prius except when I need lots of heat, and then it uses about 1/2 as much energy.

Nexus 5 ?

 

(winter) Range Anxiety in the Nissan Leaf

 

Which is why I'm soo glad I never got a Leaf as a taxi.

A Tesla S with it's 300 mile range would work. OK, that might reduce to 150 in cold weather, but that could still work. But 30 miles after a few years in winter like the Leafs in that link of yours is just crazy. They 'sell' the Leaf on the basis that it'll do 120 miles. It won't, it doesn't. It'll do 85 if you're careful or 60 in town in ideal conditions.

 

"Who you gonna believe?" [Ghostbuster's Theme in background]

1) ...there's the TRUTH.
2) ...there's the MARKETING HYPE
3) ...there's the SALESPERSON's lips moving.
4) ...there's EPA guesstimates (YMMV).
5) ...there's REALITY that YOU encounter.

Then, suddenly, you remember your high school Latin and--BINGO--the answer is CAVEAT EMPTOR! ! !

 

One Year on, Cornwall&#039;s Electric Nissan LEAF Taxi Fleet Have Driven 150,000 Miles

 

Yes. No question. And as has been pointed out here, that describes a lot of people's use of a car, particularly a second car. I'd suggest that even today's mainstream BEVs like the Leaf satisfy the needs of a lot of people, and to bring the conversation back to Toyota, I can't understand why they're not making an effort to be a player in this segment.

 

He lives in a different country where buyers don't get to see the U.S. EPA estimate. Their official 'gummint' figures use a much more optimistic & unrealistic scale.

 

On the macro level, I'm guessing Toyota engineers probably figured out that there's simply not enough lithium brine in the world to mine and used as a an energy source for BEV's and therefore cannot even replace 1/4 of our transportation needs around the world. The Tesla Model S, E & X lol is a brute force approach IMO.

The battery is often half the weight of the entire car, how is that efficient? The weight of the battery alone is parasitic to the system, then add in extreme temperatures, fast charging cycles reduces battery life sooner, I think Toyota knows something we don't and that is there has to be a better way other than pure bev's, hence more commitment to FCV.

Also, you cannot gauge the success of pure BEV based on TSLA's stock price, the market's more rigged than a soccer match these days, TSLA's P/E ratio trades at 100 to 120 times! 10X more than Ford or GM. I used to be a hardcore BEV believer but as time goes by especially in the last 5 years, I'm starting to see its serious limitations. I want to be wrong about this just as much you Jones-town kool-aid drinker want pure BEV to succeed but I think the writing is beginning to show on the wall.