Prius lost top slot in California - too long product cycle behind

I don't know why you would pick the accord hybrid instead of the more established camry and fusion hybrids and fusion energy.

The prius sells great in california, much better than in the rest of the country. I don't think it's sad that the accord is selling better for a short time. Its all funky county, to compare a family of cars, versus a single model.

 

Each is missing at least a ".0" prefix to the percentage. Replacement batteries are often from crashes when blind SUVs and pickups crash into them.

Bob Wilson

 

While we're picking bowels of cherries - how about PiP's versus PiA(ccord)'s. I'd guess the ratio is about 1,000 to 1. And why doesn't the OP also point out an equally unknown/important fact .... that the Prius doesn't outsell all other vehicles made by all manufacturers in the world.
Who knew!!!

.

 

The thing that is surreal about this whole thread is the strangeness of the real issue. When I bought my 2001 Prius, if I said this will be the best selling car in CA in just over a decade, even I would have thought I was being outlandish. Lossing the top spot race actually distracts from the reality that it changed the race.

 

I'm sure that the usual number of people will shy away from the new Accord Hybrid model solely because it's a brand-new model, and partly due to the real-word mileage of the Ford hybrid's versus their ratings. Although I think the new Accords are much better in many areas than the Camry's, I'd be hard pressed to chose the new Accord Hybrid based on uncertainty.

Not to mention that sedans are now getting extremely good numbers in gas-only vehicles now for a lot less money.

 

I may not be following you. Seems to me that people who do not buy hybrids or sub-compacts by definition do not place a high priority on fuel economy (FE). Price most certainly remains a a high priority for most of these non FE buyers, but in the context of other priorities like image, looks, convenience, power etc.

 

Right, for anyone purchasing a non-hybrid/non alternative fuel vehicle, price is only one of many variables that comes into play, and few people ever question that. I think what Bob is getting at, and I agree wholeheartedly, is that whenever someone brings up a fuel efficient vehicle as a potential purchase option, many people are quick to jump in and assume that is the only variable of importance which is a completely inaccurate read of the market.

 

What is your read of the market then ? That people who buy hybrids place a higher priority on FE than cost ? I'd have to say that is a minority, and it is shrinking by the day.

P.s., this cost argument is to a large degree BS since Prius FE saves money out of pocket over the life of the car, but I gather we are discussing the perceptions and market decisions of the arithmetically challenged.

 

In an era when initial cost or monthly payment is very important to the 90%, any premium to be paid for an alternative fuel vehicle affects sales. Only when you have enough money to invest in future economy does cost matter less than image, versatility, fit for purpose, etc. And some would be fine with a sedan even if it were hybrid where they wouldn't want to be seen in something that is styled to say hybrid.

That a Prius does so well should be a positive when carpool lane restrictions are being lifted and state/federal subsidy no longer provide motivation in many areas.

 

While it is nice that Prius has been on the CA top seller list for so long - it was not a factor when I made my purchase - what drew me to the Toyota Prius over the Honda Insight was the supportive people on Prius online driver-owner community forums like Priuschat and Yahoo! group and the more active online presence they had than driver-owners of the Honda Insight. Why? How many books can you find devoted to hybrids? How many people do you know who know anything about hybrid tech? An active online forum is a priceless resource when trying to adapt to leading edge technology. My experience has shown me that it isn't always the best or newest tech that wins out in the long run and that the best indicator for a sustainable high tech winner is a big, healthy, and strong user-techie community which stands behind it. Regardless of how many Prius haters there are out there - it does not negate the positive side of having something like the people of PriusChat behind you.

 

No personal offense intended, but it is posts like yours that make me roll my eyes.

Let me summarize the attitude:
"I am too poor to look to the future to save money,"
but "of course I pay for image!"

Ridiculous.

Now back to the problem of the monthly payment, those people should be including their fuel bill in the arithmetic.
Addendum: Let's say a used hybrid costs $2000 more than the alternative choice, and since this is a used car, the loan should be paid off in 5 years, around the time the car is old. Then, according to a financial calculator set to 5% apr interest, the extra monthly payment is $37.74

Assuming the alternative car averages 30 mpg and the Prius 50 mpg, and fuel is $3.5 a gallon, the break-even point for monthly cash flow is 809 miles a month of driving.

So the next time you hear someone say something along the lines of "hybrids are for rich people," realize it is more likely than not a rationalization, ignorance, or an inability to count.

 

I find this very true with many people I am friends with/work with. A friend from college (chemical engineer now in residency after med school) visited a few days ago and said about my Prius, "I probably would be too lazy to plug it in, and use gas all the time." He clearly does not understand the basic premise behind a standard gas-electric hybrid and how it differs from a plug-in hybrid.

Another friend of mine (physics undergrad now in a biology PhD program) wanted to know the basics behind how a ICE works and how the hybrid system functions with it.

Clearly, both of these people are highly educated, but not 'car' people and don't understand the technology behind modern transportation. I think there should be a more focused effort to educate people on the fundamentals of these systems. I will be happy when people stop asking about inapplicable range anxiety issues regarding my hybrid. Nevertheless, I always take these opportunities to educate the inquirer about technologies.

 

My wife has been around hybrids 10 years now, and she loves them. In fact is was a fight to convince her to buy a Honda Fit rather than a Prius when we bought a car for her a couple of months ago. Yet ask her how hybrids work, or why the Prius gets better fuel economy than her Fit, and I assure you she does not know despite hearing about their engineering ad nauseum. All she can say is that the Prius has been a great car, and that is what she tells others.

Even in the Google age, cars remain a very word of mouth thing.

 

This was the story I was referring to

Honda Civic Hybrid Battery Reliability | Hybrid Batteries - Consumer Reports News

 

It's a familiar story here. Honda played fast and loose with the batteries on their early hybrids. Then they treated customers with battery problems poorly.

I'd like to think they have learned their lesson, but their past actions will cost some sales.

 

R they are only talking about sales of Prius liftback, non-plug in models?

I have seen only one singular Accord Hybrid on the road since it's been released last November. $29,945 sticker and with muted trunk and no folding rear seat and limited production, I think mostly MPG enthusiasts are gonna consider it.

Accord Hybrid is up to 41.9 MPG on fuelly with 45 posters. This is about 2 more MPGs than Camry and Fusion Hybrids. More time needed though.

Honda Accord MPG Reports | Fuelly

Ford Fusion Hybrid MPG Reports | Fuelly

Toyota Camry Hybrid MPG Reports | Fuelly

 

Honda polishes their interiors with a fine tooth comb, but they don't have quite the practicality of Toyota sometimes. (i.e. 9th gen Accord does not have a split folding rear seat). Honda lays out their seats and controls very well.

Toyota seems to often go budget on their interior layouts, but their drivetrains are great.

 

My prius was in the shop and I was given a civic hybrid. In comparison, going from my Prius to the Honda, number one was that it felt cheap. The seats already had creases in the fabric from general use, interior plastics seem cheap and the body had a spot of rust under the hood. I believe it was a 2011 or 2012. My Prius has more room inside, and just, to me feels like a much nicer car.

Honda would have to come a long way in order to get me to buy one of their hybrids.

 

Bowels? Gross

 

Honda uses the same batteries which Toyota used in its first Prius (1998-2003). Toyota also had high failure rates for those cylindrical cells. The flaw was not with the management, but with the manufacturer of the cells.