Hybrids could prove costly to the U.S.

Will these people stop at nothing???

 

Wow. I wonder what part of his nether regions the author of that commentary pulled those numbers from.

If one wanted to respond to that commentary, they could take several tacts.

One could point out that most U.S. bound Camry Hybrids will be built in the U.S. One could point out that the newest tax credits will completely disappear in less than two years for Toyotas and Hondas while remaining on the books for Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler giving them a competitive advantage should they choose to accept it. One could dispute the implication that buying an American PZEV small car (um, uh, a Geo Metro? Ford Focus?) has 0 trade imbalance impact as American branded small cars are frequently assembled in Mexico or Japan from 35% Canadian produced or 90% Japanese produced parts. One could point out that the total cost of giving those tax credits to 200,000 Priuses would be less than $500 million (assuming half get the full credit and half get less), a tiny fraction of the US trade deficit in one month. One could point out that the impact of imported oil on national security and foreign policy are not monetized in that discussion but will be of increasing significance in the near future.

Ultimately, bashing superior Japanese autos is all just a lovely smoke screen that keeps people from looking at true solutions. One such solution would be something along the lines of imposing increased gasoline taxes to discourage consumption and using the money to fund accelerated R&D for future fuel sources and transportation technology. That's the kind of high wage, high value added solution that would provide great jobs, long term environmental progress, drive economic progress and could once again make our automotive industry world leaders.

 

The Hybrid, in particular the Prius, is going to collapse the US Economy?

I have a fifth number he left out: 0

The amount of credibility this article has.

 

Gee, that was an amazingly well thought out analysis wasn't it? Let's see:

• Trade imbalance buying a car made in Japan. Same thing happens with 'domestic' cars made in Mexico, etc.
• Read Consumer Reports did he? Who says I would buy a cheaper car if I hadn't bought the Prius? In fact, had I stuck with the same model as my prior vehicle, it would have cost about the same, though it would be missing many features on the Prius. Insurance would therefore be the same. What extra maintenance?????? I change the oil every 5K miles, changed it every 3750 on the prior vehicle and there are no other maintenance items for many thousands of miles (air filters at 30K). No one has had to replace a battery, there is evidence (the Vancouver taxi) that it will last twice the 100K warranty

He is on the mark that there are alternatives. But GM et al need to stop the "you need a BIG SUV or 0-60 in 7 seconds (because we make big profits on them) marketing", run factories that don't get shut down because they can only produce 1 type of vehicle, etc . Would there be ANY pressure on them to clean up if Honda and Toyota had not shown it is possible to build an affordable, reasonably powered, reasonably priced vechile that still gets 50% to 100% better mileage than anything the big 3 make that can be fairly compared (based on size)?

 

I just bought a hybrid, after MUCH 'hemming and hawing'. While I agree this is a concern (the economic impact), all I have to say is this: IF WE CAN'T BREATHE THE AIR, *WHAT DIFFERENCE* is 'economic impact' going to make??

I *SWORE* that I would NEVER buy a "non-American" car. I have driven Fords, Chevys, and various GM vehicles RELIGIOUSLY... and I've been driving for over twenty years. I even owned a HARLEY... just because I promised myself I would never ride a "rice-rocket". The Harley was the BIGGEST mistake of all, it was defective from the day I bought it, and I finally got disgusted and sold it at a LOSS just to get it out of my life!

WHY AREN'T THE AMERICAN CAR MANUFACTURERS GIVING THE PUBLIC WHAT IT WANTS? We want to BREATHE safely. We want to leave a CLEANER world for our kids, our grandkids... THAT'S WHAT WE WANT! GIVE IT TO US, and we'll buy it!

'nuff said!

(steps down off soapbox and disappears into the shadows)

 

articles designed to get people to click on the link so they get money from ads. dont click

 

A very valid question. American Car Manufacturers are not giving the public what it wants because the American economic system is structured to disregard long term costs in favor of short term gains. It's all about today's stock price. Today's stock price for GM is best served by spending millions of dollars on advertising, lobbying, and media punditry to convince people that environmental problems and oil reserves are not something they need to worry about today and that the coolest thing they could have is a Chevy Tahoe with all the bells and whistles. To the extent they have failed in those efforts, they are losing money and gutting their company, but redesigning the company's product line doesn't help today's stock price as much as convincing you to buy that Tahoe does, and so they redouble their efforts. And the downward spiral continues.

 

"Hybrids Could Prove Costly to the US" failed to pull together its different arguments. Some interesting numbers and observations are listed but the writing is not very coherent.

Ray Windecker, the author of the article, has "60 years experience in corporate automotive marketing and journalism". Perhaps he's slowing down and allowing his writing to get sloppy or the editor at Automotive News gutted Windecker's piece. Maybe the author is so upset, his computer is having problems keeping up with the rate at which words are being spat at it.

He's trying to argue that the American auto industry is threatened and that Toyota might play a part in that. No surprises there. Last I checked, we had a free enterprise system. A corporation screws up and fails to meet consumer expectations, they should expect to sucumb to the competition.

Then he worries about trade deficits. No shocking news there either. What does he want the government to do about it? Set tarrifs and trade barriers? Oh, we already do that! Should we increase them? Sink ships carrying cars from Japan? Declare war on all countries that manufacure competing cars? You know, a pre-emptive auto war.

Maybe we should make it Un-American to drive anything except US cars?

I think he really wants to argue for American manufacturers to "get with it" and make advanced tech hybrids here, in the US. But, heaven forfend, that would be anathema, to imply that a foreign company has patented better technology than the US can develop. We missed that opportunity? Impossible! We're the USA!

***

My point: I'd like to argue that America is a fading star in the international heavens, as Britain was before WWII. The failing of our formally unbeatable automotive industry is just one symptom. We won't lose our superpower status for another generation or two but it's coming.

We're already losing our technological and scientific edge, running out of natural resources, we might even be, as a nation, morally bankrupt.

I just hope the US has the smarts to gracefully exit the stage, otherwise the rising powers that will-be might get annoyed and make our old age very uncomfortable.

We'd better cultivate leaders like Churchill.

 

the prius WILL soon be assembled in the US. The trade deficit was in a positive position only 8 years ago before the TAX AND SPEND REPUBLICANS sold out our future to enrich the few (seen Haliburton stock charts lately?) R&D research HAS been done and it points to EV & PEV yet US automakers haven't followed through. The implication in the article to fund more R&D = code for US GOvernment Giving away billions to US automakers so they can once again (CLinton adm) take the money and run. US Security and deficit reduction begin at home. Security is partially accomplished by eliminating oil imports (Hybrids). Deficit reduction = spend on US infrastructure, not bombing brown-skinned people in foreign lands (While allowing Bin laden to run free since his family and Bush family are such close friends). Choice: more of the same (US Automakers) or look to the future (Toyota). Personally I live in the here and now, learn from the past and aim toward the future, which sums up pretty well why the Prius is what I drive. There are lies by comission and lies by omission. THis article is the latter.

 

The Prius is a drop in the bucket compred to Wal Mart when it come to the balance of payments. A very small drop at that. At least it points Detroit in a hopeful direction. Hybrids didn't creat the giant sucking sound, they are part of the solution.

 

Big problems, wrong/irrelevant solution. The article unfortunately distracts people from the problems with self-serving nonsense.

 

As I understand it, everytime you click on a link posted around that article, the company will pay Automotive News a fee. So, just click a link a couple of hundred times and then they pay-up without any real business coming in.

I actually heard one company hired a bunch of people to do just that to cost the competitor thousands of dollars.

 

Could this be the electric motor heard 'round the world?

I'm simply amazed at how much emotion this little car stirs up! I truly wish this debate had started years ago before places like Glacier National Park started becoming melted run-off.

As I've stated before in a previous post, I bought my Prius because nobody in America has stepped up to the plate and given me what I want in a hybrid. Yes I had to do some soul searching in that I'd love to have the benefits of the Escape Hybrid or the Highlander (FWD and all), but I don't really need them and I don't want to pay for them. I'm not sure which marketing genius came up with the "lets charge 'em a lot more" approach but judging from Ford's lack of sales on the FEH, I'd say it isn't working anymore. Was the development cost expensive, yes. But so were slow sellers such as the Ford 500 or Chrysler Crossfire. In other words, car companies take risks all the time.

I am glad to see that in the next few years America is literally going to be flooded with hybrid cars and trucks and I guess we have nobody but Toyota and Honda to thank for that. They are the two companies that stuck their necks and engineering efforts out on the line because they believed! GM and Ford both had their chances (hey GM remember the EV1?) but could never establish a "business model" for those cars. I said long ago, try marketing them OUTSIDE of California. I live in Ohio and you won't lease one to me. Duh! A California-only business model might not always work.

As for helping collapse the US economy... are you KIDDING me? There are an infinite number of things ahead of the Toyota Prius that will kill the economy. And as for Ohio's economy, I don't know where we would be without Honda. Our State produces the Civic, the Accord and the Element. We surpassed GM last year in Ohio auto manufacturing. I would not want to be the one telling the Honda folks that they are contributing to the demise of the US economy when they are the ones who are helping prop it up.

This is all healthy debate though and I'm glad to see it happening. Once Americans start seeing hybrid Camry's, Accords, Altima's, Fusions, F-150's and everything else I can't help think that they will be wondering why they made fun of us Prius drivers. The sad part is that the Prius may become the odd little car that started it all and will certainly at some point loose its unique standing.

 

Strip away the spin and it says "Trade deficits bankrupt the US". A more thoughful conclusion might have been "Fuel efficient foreign-built vehicles do this more slowly than do others". Pure domestic fuel efficient vehicle should do better, if we grant the premise. But are there any pure domestic vehicles? I really don't know. Toyotas built here aren't and won't be.

I ought feel more compassion towards the author. But instead, I find myself selfishly hoping that the twilight of my cognitive skills will not be on public display.

 

Hmmm. Does anyone else sense a dis-information campaign happening? There are so many errors in the base assumptions in this article it's as if the stuffed shirt picked them out of the air. <_<

Prius owners get a $3150 credit in '06, where did the $1700 average come from? I suspect that is the average credit for ALL hybrids, not the Prius. My insurance went down. The Prius cost about what I was going to pay for an equivalently sized VW, etc., not more, I have no expectation for higher maintenance costs, actually I expect they'll be significantly less than the VW based on experience and user reports. And it certainly doesn't cost more to license. Prius owners drive about 12-15k miles on average per year. But his figure is double the average. etc., etc.

It's too bad. His article is so filled with errors that his main point gets lost. That I agree with: American automotive manufacturing had better wake up and smell the coffee. There is a market for very low emission, fuel efficient, quality vehicles. The US is becoming less competetive on a global scale. If we want to reduce this trade balance, start making cars the world wants, instead of imposing their antiquated notion of what makes a good vehicle.

 

I expect no less from an American auto industry cheerleader. At least he did not dress up in the mini skirt and pom pom’s.

I fined it funny that he mentions the national debt as a reason not to purchase a Prius. If we did not go to war for oil we would not be so far in debt. Then we might have the money and military man power to go do something about Darfur. Second to the environment our war for oil was one of the reasons I purchased my Prius. Saving money was never part of the equation.

 

By his logic, I would expect a full frontal attack on Walmart, the primary Chinese importorium.

 

Well Said! You should send this reply to the author. Further discussion of his "analysis" is a waste of time.

 

We're all doomed... thats no suprise to me... I just doubt that the Prius will be the cause of our impending doom... ::sigh:: <_<