"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Theodore Roosevelt, 1918
Yeah, maybe those newscasters are all too young to actually remember him. The president who could not distinguish his movie roles from his real life; who thought that nuclear missiles, once launched, could be called back; who thought that you could survive an all-out nuclear war by digging a hole and covering yourself with 3 feet of dirt ("If there's enough shovels to go around, we're all going to make it."); who sold arms to terrorists and used the profits to fund an illegal war, after himself signing the law that outlawed his support of it... There was a joke, that the reason he survived that assassination attempt was that he had only two moving parts: his mouth and his anus, and they were interchangeable. The pathetic thing is that the guy we've got now makes Reagan look like an intellectual.
180 degrees out of phase Yet another pathetic attempt by a left wing lunatic to undermine what a good man has done. But who looks silly here? Our deceased President Reagan, or the one who shouts obscenities and accusations directed at a dead man. And these accusations are based on nothing more that hate, or at best, ignorance. Whatever processes you use for thinking and reasoning are 180 degrees out of phase with reality. Yet this is to be expected from you hard core liberal "intellectuals." Get a life or just go back in the woods and hug your favorite tree. Do you derive pleasure from slandering the dead? Pitiful indeed. Again, your rantings are pitiful. Sadly, you must be a very unhappy person. You are an embarrassment. ukeleft:
I'm not quite sure what Middle_Age_Moment and Mybrid are so worked up about, but Reagan actually DID say all of those things. Its fairly well-documented too, and no amount of name-calling will change those facts. At times, we're all let slip some careless remark that we don't really mean. The difference is that Presidents have their every move watched and recorded, making every slipup a big deal. Still, that kind of attack on daniel was really uncalled for, and kinda ironic if you think about it.
Re: 180 degrees out of phase M_A_M, please watch any personal attacks. Let's all try to be civil to one another while disagreeing and having spirited debate.
Of course, my favorite Reagan moment was the unintentional radio address where he claimed to have outlawed the Soviet Union and had launched the nukes. I'm sure someone somewhere crapped there pants that day. However, even though I am a registered Democrat (somewhat moderate) I don't want to just criticize the mistakes of the Reagan Presidency just like I got disgusted with the Far right attacks on the Clinton years after spending untold millions to determine how much coochie he got from Lewinsky. Let me just say that I disagreed with the Reagan policies, but I do respect the man for sticking to them as strong as he did.
Dear Daniel, In view of President Reagan's death, you have shown yourself to be a complete jerk by your statements.
Yes the guy is dead...but he was not a saint. He did things that I found objectionable. The way he is being portrayed in the news you would think he was going to be catonized by the Pope soon. People who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it, and I know in my history classes we never got past the Civil War in the year. For the new voters out there, who were not alive when Reagan was president, they need to know both sides. They are getting a warped version of history right now. There has to be a balance, it does not have to be totally negative but I would like to hear the words Iran-Contra at least once! And the delay on AIDS becoming a health issue in the US, at least testing the Blood Supply. Nuff said.....(by me anyway ) shona
I agree with Daniel and Shona and disagree with most other Reagan Policies as well. However, I do not begrudge those who want to spend the week of Reagan's death to sing their praises of the Teflon President. I will let time and history provide the more considered and thoughtful view. Jon
Last post on the Prius forum. I originally thought this was going to be a source of information on the Prius. Have found this site to be preoccupied with political statements, poor manners and taste in view of the downright nasty comments re: Ronald Reagan...and any other matter that might even smirk of anything conservative. Perhaps a Prius forum will come along which is about the car rather than the people who choose to buy a Prius and feel smug and sanctimonius about themselves. The sheer anger towards SUVs and anyone who doesn't subscribe to everything about global warming, etc. pervades this site and diminishes it resourcefulness. Manners matter. Bye. Your information doesn't counterbalance your snobbism.
Good luck finding a Prius forum or any forum for that matter that doesn't have some political bickering and rude people. I have found PriusChat to be the sanest of all the lists I have been on. Just my two cents. Jeff
I find it amazingly ironic that everyone is so worked up about daniel's comment, given the original post in this thread. Granted, the week he dies might be a particularly bad week to point out a man's mistakes. But I'm guessing that conservatives will always be using the line "stop criticizing anything he does, let the man rest in peace." I'm not even sure irony is a strong enough word for this. Trust me, whether you believe in an afterlife or not, debating his legacy doesn't hurt him one bit. Either he's decomposing in a box, in which case he can't hear us, or he's in a much better place right now, in which case he really, REALLY wouldn't care.
I'm wondering, if the talk on the forums leaned conservative, would you still be outraged and upset? Or would you pile on? It looks like the mods have been very careful about controlling SUV bashing. But really, is there something untrue about what has been said? They are, in fact, very big. They have been proven in government and private test to rollover, a fact backed up by real life data. They are, on a whole, less fuel efficient than most other vehicles. So how is pointing out the factual shortcomings of this vehicle class considered "bashing"? I think "SUV bashing" would be more to the tune of "SUVs are dumb, and anyone who drives one is a retard." Or better yet: "God hates SUVs and SUV drivers, they're all gonna burn in hell." That catchy phrase, of course, is taken from gay bashers. I don't think it would be gay bashing to say something like: "boy, gay people sure enjoy having sex with people of the same gender." That's not bashing, its stating facts. I was amazed to find that "snobbism" is actually a word. It sure as hell didn't look like a word. I was going to make fun of you some for that, but now I got nothin'. nuts (too bad that was his last post, I would've liked to have heard his response)
Re: 180 degrees out of phase Aside from the joke, admittedly in bad taste, which expresses the contempt I still feel for the man who presided over the dirty wars in Central America which killed hundreds of thousands of people, mostly civilian campesinos, everything I said about Reagan is factually correct. I remember (how could anyone forget!) his declarations in broadcast news conferences, mentioned in my earlier post. And the Iran/Contra affair is certainly well-enough documented, though Reagan claimed to have been "out of the loop." So are we prohibited from saying anything bad about a man once he is dead? May I not say what an evil man Hitler was, or Stalin, or Tammerlaine, or Jack the Ripper, now that they are dead? Well, when the news media across the board starts gushing exaggerated praise for a politician, and so pointedly ignoring his faults, and acting as though everybody loved him and comparing him with FDR, then those of us who disagree have a right to speak out. Wrong on three points. Except for the joke, everything I've said about him is well documented. I am not a "liberal." I consider myself a progressive. Liberals are far to the right of me. And I've never claimed to be an intellectual. (What does "hard core intellectual" mean, anyway?)
Everyone take a deep breath and relax. Good. If Stan is still listening: Lighten up, this thread is firmly within the "General Discussions" area which is clearly our "anything goes" area. If you want Prius and nothing but Prius it's easy to find by staying only within the Prius-only threads. I concur with Jeff Kash that if you want a Prius site 100% immune from any political opinion you're in for a long hunt or will have to try to create such a site yourself as every one I've been to has gone off on tangents at one time or another. At least Danny has set aside one little corner of the site for such things specifically because of people like you, Stan, who don't want to participate in those. And yet, what do you do, but go sticking your nose into that little corner, getting yourself worked up into a tiff and running off with your bottom lip sticking out. Sun_Tzu...SUV 'bashing' has been restricted in the Prius threads and a modicum of respect to not generalize all Prius owners at enviroment destroying roadhogging bad driving disrespectful fuel wasting idiots by painting them all with that same brush, it IS and always has been permitted to carry on discussion of environmental issues within the Environmental forum and Gen. discussion forums. Danny just didn't want this site to become some elitist area where anyone who's ever owned an SUV is immediately damned. Next, I agree that Daniel's comments were a bit heavy handed and a bit out of line considering it is a past leader of our country who recently died and, as a human, deserves some respect. But, as Sun_Tzu mentioned, the first two posts on this thread made it clear that this was not a thread to honor the dead, but rather point out the irony of how we discuss only the good things about Reagan and how wrong it is to idolize those individuals. In that regard, though it could have been done more tactfully, Daniel's comments were right on topic. I'm not gonna lock the thread, I leave that to Danny, but maybe we can all agree to let it die....at least until our week of mourning is over....