Chrysler mild-hybrids, plug-in hybrid minivan and full-sized "crossover" coming

I have definitely heard the term mild hybrid hybrid used for IMA. The "full hybrid" can use motor only even when the ice is off, going pure ev. In the IMA the ice must spin. Then again in the prius after the magic number is reached and its driving on the highway or even a 45 mph road, it loses it's ability to do this (other than the phv ;-)).

But why care? IMA is dead. hyundai, bmw, porsche, vw, mercedes, etc use anouther clutch to be able to do the full hybrid trick.

Chyrsler is doing what some people call a micro-hybrid which gm has done. GM got enough flack on calling its micro-hybrid a hybrid, that they changed the name to e-Assist. They dropped it from the malibu because with a better ice, the assist didn't provide any better mpg then their stop start system.

 

The Wiki article you linked uses Honda's IMA as a mild hybrid example.

Mild hybrid was seen as not good enough. Even though it could improve gasoline economy over a straight ICE. I was guilty of such thinking back in the day. So there was a movement to use assist hybrid for the stronger mild hybrids. Then at the opposite end of the spectrum, weaker mild hybrids were deemed unworthy of the hybrid moniker.

A full hybrid has at least two motor/generator units. This allows electric assist, or even full EV propulsion, via a serial pathway directly from the ICE regardless of the traction battery's SOC. The two M/Gs also allow assist and battery charging at the same time.

Honda's IMA replacement and the others listed hybrid systems are still mild hybrids. Since there is just one M/G*, there is no serial pathway between the ICE and motor. All electric assist is limited by the battery's SOC. One M/G also means the system can charge the battery or provide assist. Doing both is impossible.

*Cars with additional motors for the purpose of AWD will blur this line. They could be a full hybrid by powering the rear motor(s) via the motor linked to the ICE instead of the battery, but how many eAWD systems use those motors for EV propulsion beyond improving traction when needed. On paper they are a full hybrid, but hardware and software limits might make them mild hybrids in practice.

A micro-hybrid is just another name an auto start/stop system. If the system has the power to move the car, regardless of what degree, it is a mild hybrid. The eAssist Malibu is a mild hybrid. The next Malibu with start/stop is a micro-hybrid.

 

Wikipedia lists IMA as an example for Mild hybrid model in that link you provided.
You have to try again.

 

I don't like to get bogged down in semantics but the IMA is a more powerful variant of a family that includes the belt-assisted hybrids. The key distinction being whether the engine crankshaft rotates with the electric motor.

Personally I never understood why companies that know how to make a 4-wheel drive or PTO transmission never figured out how to connect the motor via the transmission instead of the engine crankshaft.

Bob Wilson

 

Chrysler can't get the gas engine right.. Can't wait to see the garbage they produce.

 

If I had an employer who would install charging units or at least AC outlets, I'd be with you.
Does anyone know how the Leaf does in minus 0 conditions, I haven't been on priuschat for quite awhile, it's probably been answered so just a link would be fine. Wisconsin just came out of the longest below 0 stretch in recorded history and we have a Governor who can't add or subtract but wants to be President (be afraid, he's a darling of the Tea Party and takes calls from the Koch brothers)

Chrysler is what? Number 0 in vehicle sales, I suspect Fiat will dump them soon enough, that report just shows how ignorant some high paid people really are.

My 2 cents.

 

Honda's most successful IMA is the Civic with three generations of improvement

. I apologize. I should have been more clear. It's difficult to get "excited" about EVs:

- The only practical one (Tesla) costs $70,000
- The affordable ones (Leaf) only go ~1 hour until they have to stop for two hours to recharge (longer if you cannot find a ChaDemo unit).
- Not everyone can afford, or have room for, three cars: 2 electrics + gasoline car for long trips. They just choose gasoline.

Last year my commute was 15 miles which was doable in a Leaf, but then I was transferred and now it's 75 one way. No way could I do that in a Leaf (at interstate speeds) especially after the battery drops to 80% range (which Nissan claims is normal aging for a two-year-old EV).

If I owned a Leaf, it would now be sitting & rusting while I drove the Prius or Insight instead
.

 

I drive 14 miles to work and back in a day. My gf drives about 15-30 miles a day for her job. Here petrol is over $8 a gallon.
We're seriously considering at least one EV when we replace our cars. Twice a year we drive 200 miles each way to London. If we had an EV we'd hire a car for the week with the money we've saved.

EV's are not for everyone in the same way a Ferrari isn't or an SUV isn't. Horses for courses. They don't work for you, but they'd work fine for us.

 

1 EV for husband's commute, 1 EV for wife's commute, and a backup gasoline car for long trips. Most people can afford two cars, but the third backup car is a stretch.

Read the mynissanleaf.com forum & you will see a letter published by Nissan that claimed a battery range drop to 80% in two years is considered normal aging. (It was a polite way of telling Arizoners that they cannot get a new battery... several responded with a lawsuit.)

And no my view isn't bull. I'm going to Vegas soon. The tesla can do it, but few persons can afford it. Meanwhile the affordable Leaf cannot. Drive 1 hour then stop for 2 (if you can find a ChaDemo... I don't see any along I-15). Drive 1; stop 2. Drive 1; stop 2. Drive 1; stop 2. Drive 1; stop 2. Drive 1..... and your Leaf is finally in Vegas.

(deep breath) Whew! Made it. 16 hour marathon trip with the Leaf (or Fiat 500e or Fit or other low range EV).

 

Can't you just rent a car for long trips where the EV isn't the best choice? I was a lifelong pickup truck driver, and decided that for the 5% of the time i needed a truck, I'd rent one.

Same goes for a EV. Buy one if your commute allows it, and for long trips, rent. What's the issue?

 

Well yes rental is a possibility to go to Vegas, if my EV cannot handle the trip, but I'd rather just buy a Prius or civic (and leave the EV at the showroom). Of course if Tesla lowered the price tag on their car to 35,000, then I'd choose that.

I wonder about the accuracy of that "less than 25 miles/trip" stat. It's likely as wrong as the "50 million without insurance" and "women only 77 cents per dollar". The first is highly inaccurate & the second is true..... if this we 1980.

I doubt the accuracy or timeliness of the miles/trip stat as well. How was it measured? Does it include trips by bus or train or bike? Is "average" a useful measure? Maybe the data is skewed by a lot of retirees with 1 mile trips to the store, while the active workers are doing 40-50 to their job (in which case a 75 mile EV does not work)

I am a skeptic.
I like to see something more than just a sound bite. I like to see data, or an explanation of how it was gathered.

 

The US DOT compiles these statistics periodically, and the measure is quite accurate. If charging is not available at work or shopping though, the miles/day is a better reflection of charging. For leaf owners that is around 29 miles, well short of half the 82 mile range, so errands and extra trips can be added.

You don't seem to want an ev, and no one here is trying to sell you one, but you are correct that leaf owners want longer range. PHEVs solve that whole range anxiety thing.

http://www.veva.bc.ca/papers/HowFarWeDrive_v1.2.pdf
Lots of information here, and from government publications. Start looking at 6.2.1. This was 2009, we have a lot more information, but I don't know the best document.

 

Until long range (>100mi) EV prices come down to a affordable prices I'll be looking at a PHEV.

I don't think 50 mpg is too bag when the battery runs out.

 

This might be Chrysler's mild hybrid system.
48 Volt VW Golf TDI | PriusChat

 

If that is the system, and they have a 8 speed transmission, hey it could help raise fuel economy.

Key here is the power - 14kw bursts and downsized miller cycle ice. While I think the atkinson + 10kw IMA was underpowered, and that powers control might have been mismanaged. Will it do as good as a hsd? I would think that on highway cruise if aerodynamics are the same, this architecture may be better for mpg. You should be able to build a miller cycle electric assist turbo that is more efficient than an atkinson. Friction should be lower if sized correct, and the transmission should keep it in its efficient range. Having electric HVAC and PS are two of the tricks the prius uses for better mileage.

In the city the eCVT is going to be more efficient. Having 27kw of electric power, and braking regen should simply outclass the system.
It will be interesting if they do a good job and if 14kw, belt driven, is enough to improve city mileage.

 

"Atkinson + 10kw IMA was underpowered"

All of Hondas IMA systems are standard combustion, not Atkinson. (The oldest ones included lean burn during steady-state cruise.) Old 70s tech. The original Accord hybrid alternated between 6 and 3 cylinder mode
.

 

+1

Thanks. The new accord hybrid can go into atkinson mode from otto, with some valving tricks. Thought the old ones could do that too, but don't see it, thanks for the correction. This possible miller cycle vw stuff with the electric assist turbo may help. We need to wait and see what comes out. I don't like vws but maybe it can boost those that do.