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Good 12v battery losing charge?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by kilo323, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    First, what a great resource for Prius owners. Grateful to have a group of knowledgeable people willing to help out. Thank you in advance! Now onto my dilemma:

    I just got back from O'Reilly's where I had my 12v battery tested. The test came back that the battery was good. The battery is under a year old with less than 10,000 miles on it. It is the SuperCharge battery that O'Reilly sells for the Prius.

    I have had issues on a couple occasions now where when the car sits overnight, it is dead in the morning. Not every time, but has happened twice in under a week. I can jump the car fine and it is good until it sits overnight again. I am making sure no lights are left on and no doors are open.

    The diagnostic test using the MFD showed 12.1v in ACC (press start once) and then 11.8v when it was under load (press start again without using brake). When I start the car it bumps up to 14.1v.

    What is even more strange is that last night after a 30 minutes drive the car would not start after sitting for just a few minutes. It did respond to a jump and I was able to get it home; another 30 minute drive.

    After taking to O'Reilly today for the test, the battery is at 12.3v when in ACC. I am starting to record the voltage before and after trips with the car to see if it just keeps dropping.

    The car is driven 5-6 times per week. Typically the trips driven are 10-15 minutes long. Could this possibly be why the battery drains? What has me questioning things more is why the car would not start after a 30 minute drive, I would have thought the battery would have been recharged after that long of a drive.

    The battery I have has a 3 year warranty on it but the test machine says the battery is fine. Is there something else I should be looking at/for?

    Thanks so much.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome to priuschat! it could be that the battery is defective, and has intermittent problems. there are several threads here about battery testing specs and load/drain on the battery with everything off. do some research and hopefully you will find your answer. all the best!(y)
     
  3. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    An item to check is the negative battery lead where it is fastened to the bodywork. If you have a DVM set it to the low amps range (2 amps) and connect it in series with the battery. With all doors closed, lights off, and key well away from the car if you have SKS, the current should be less than 20 ma (0.02 amps).
    Any more than this means you have an electrical discharge problem.
    If all is well check the voltage at the battery in ready mode. This should be around 13.8 to 14.2 volts, lower than this suggest a problem with the DC to DC converter (charging system).
    If all is well then the battery is suspect. A good AGM battery fully charged will be at 12.8 to 13 volts. This is higher than ordinary flooded lead acid car batteries.
    Forgetting my manners, welcome to PC.

    John (Britprius)
     
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  4. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I have searched the forum and other sites regarding my issue. Which is what leads me to believe the battery may be bad.

    I guess my question is can the battery be bad but a battery testing machine at the auto parts store show it as good? If so, is there another way they can determine it is bad? They tested it by putting it on the machine for about 5 minutes and told me it was a good battery.

    I would prefer to not fork out another $200 to replace the battery as it would be covered under warranty given it is under a year old.

    Britprius - thanks for the info. I am not sure I know what you are referring to but will see if I can figure it out and test it that way. I assume a DVM is a digital voltage meter?

    Thanks again for all the help!
     
  5. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Yes I am sorry for using the term DVM without explaining it. The easy way to do the test is from under the bonnet (hood) If you open the fuse box and lift the red cover over the jump point you will find a threaded stud with a nut on it. Undo the nut and lift the cable eye found underneath till it comes clear of the stud. The cable with the eye is the feed from the battery the stud is the rest of the car circuits. Connecting one of the DVM probes to the eye and the other to the stud will read the current flowing from the battery.
    The only downside of doing this is you will loose all your preset radio stations and the drivers window self park position. To re set this open the window half way then close holding the switch in the closed position for a couple of seconds.

    John (Britprius)
     
  6. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    Thanks for the explanation John, much appreciated. I will try to pick up a DVM and get the reading. No downside, I keep losing presets anyway as I have to have it jumped frequently :)

    One thing I forgot to note was that for about 2 weeks prior to the car not starting one morning, I noticed almost daily that the clock was off. The car started, but the clock was off several hours. Not sure if that helps in diagnosing the problem.
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Check that battery ground connection at the rear.

    John (Britprius)
     
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  8. toddrav

    toddrav Junior Member

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    Have you tried giving it a good charge? On the forums here I've read it's good to give it a full charge monthly since the car charger often fails to bring it to full charge, especially when most trips are short.

    I just replaced my battery after experiencing repeat failures to start, but my voltage was dropping to 9v range with lights on during battery test.
     
  9. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    Thanks John. I see you commented on another post here about the ground wire. I did not run across this particular post until your comment about the ground wire led me to search differently. This sounds real similar to my situation, will check ground connection and make sure the ground wire is clean.

    toddrav - I believe O'Reilly brought the battery to full charge when I had it tested today. I too read about charging it monthly and will likely make that part of a maint. routine.
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    That means the battery needs replacing as you found out. One thing to note the Prius battery is an AGM battery (absorbed glass mat) and needs a higher charging voltage than ordinary flooded lead acid batteries. Using an ordinary battery charger will not charge them fully (better than no charge) , so you should use a charger designed for AGM batteries.

    John (Britprius)
     
  11. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Make sure your using an AGM charger as my above post.

    John (Britprius)
     
  12. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    Thanks John. I will keep that in mind when purchasing a charger.
     
  13. toddrav

    toddrav Junior Member

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    I just bought a CTEK, after testing the voltage on the two chargers I had in the garage. Suggest getting one that can also 'recondition' your battery by reducing the sulfation.
     
  14. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    Some good news. Yesterday, I removed the ground and positive on the 12v battery. I used some sandpaper to clean up the contacts of both batteries as well as the screw and body where the negative attaches. I noticed the ground clamp and screw were a bit loose so I took care to secure them well when I put them back on.

    I took a reading using the built in diagnostics at around 4:30pm and 8:30 pm last night and again this morning around 7:30 am (around 45 degrees F). In ACC I got 12.1v and IG-ON 11.9v all three times. The car started this morning just fine and the clock was the right time.

    I seem to find conflicting information regarding the reading from the MFD as to what is acceptable. I have yet to get a voltage meter or charger as am low on cash. My plan is to monitor the readings from the MFD and record them to see if I see any voltage loss.

    I was also going to purchase a charger but not sure what to get. Any suggestions? I am looking at ones that specifically state for use with AGM batteries but they vary based on amps. Is there too high of amps to charge at? Should I stay with 2 amp or is 10amp okay?

    I figure once I get a charger I can make sure the battery is fully charged while I monitor for voltage loss.

    Thanks for the help. Praying cleaning the ground and re-securing the clamps solves the issue.
     
  15. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The charger should be 4 amp maximum or if it can charge at a higher rate have a setting to charge at or below the 4 amps. The Prius battery has a maximum charge rate of 4.5 amps according to the label on the top of the battery. A 2 amp charger is fine but will obviously be slower than a 4 amp.
    The readings on the MFD can on some Prius be lower than they actually are by up to in my experience 0.5 volts. This does not apply to all Prius but the level of accuracy does vary. This is why I recommend using a volt meter at the battery terminals.

    John (Britprius).
     
  16. toddrav

    toddrav Junior Member

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    If funds are tight, there are many options that are near disposable. Black-Decker BM3B ($17) only puts out an Amp trickle charge but is smart enough not to overcharge when you leave it connected. They also include terminals for a quick disconnect, which makes plugging it in at night convenient enough to remember ;) However, I doubt it provides the higher voltage recommended for AGM batteries

    I just bought the CTEK MUS 4.3 for $57. I have a couple cheap chargers that don't deliver much over 12v, while this one is designed for AGM batteries. It has a recondition feature that in theory prolongs the life of your battery.
     
  17. kilo323

    kilo323 New Member

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    Just wanted to report back that it must have been a dirty or lose connection. Thanks for the pointer about the ground. All has been well since I cleaned up and tightened the connections.

    Clock has been keeping time. Voltage readings have been good. Funny thing is the radio used to go up and down in volume once in a while. Now that has gone away too and I have consistent volume.

    Thanks so much for the pointers and help.
     
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  18. Scott M.

    Scott M. New Member

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    I kept having the same problems as you, with a battery I changed myself less than a year ago with very little usage. I have a new battery from Amazon on the way, but after reading this, went in and found the ground connection to the negative port very loose. Spot on!
     
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  19. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Amazon does not take returns on batteries for refund, if you decide now that the new battery is not necessary, you would have to refuse delivery when it comes.
     
  20. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Glad your problem was a simple one. It is often the case that people look for complicated solutions where only a small, but obscure fault exists.

    John (Britprius)