electric vehicle buyers younger than those buying a hybrid

I could also see remembering to plug in my car at night would get old very quickly. I don't consider myself to be the poster version of a later Baby Boomer (born in 1960). The older I get, the easier I find it to think past old paradigms. Most people my age have a hard time changing their minds just because they don't want to no matter how many facts refute them. This is why I run from discussions about politics and religion. My ultra conservative friends think I'm a raving liberal and my ultra liberal friends think I'm too conservative. I did my research, bought a Prius and now everyone is scratching their heads.

Hope I didn't break any forum rules. Not discussing politics or religion, just using them as an example.

 

Another statistic that might muddy the waters: how many EV vs. hybrid drivers lease vs. buy? When I was shopping, I recall reading advice here and there that plug-in/EV's might be better off leased, since the technology is still maturing. I don't know whether there really are a large proportion of EV leasers in practice or what their demographics might be - but the article seems to only mention buyers.

 

Makes sense especially if you don't mind keeping an albeit cheaper car payment. It was very popular in the early 80's when you could take the lease as a tax deduction.

 

Ha, I can so relate to this.

 

240 volt takes hours to recharge, and that's too long when I have to be back home tonight (and work tomorrow). HOWEVER by 2015 Tesla will have superchargers within range of Death Valley or the northern California redwoods.

When you're in a debate the goal is not to have the person admit he/she is wrong. It's to persuade the other people who are listening. I would have told the mom-in-law:

"I drove a hybrid car 300,000 and never had a problem. And by the way: You can get a hybrid in midsize or large size. There's plenty of room inside." - She has too much pride to admit she was wrong, but the other people in the barbershop will hear & be persuaded to look at hybrid cars.

 

Not sure why. As you get out you pop the charge port, take the plug and plug it in. Then walk away... That's it. When it is 40 below outside or even super hot, I would rather not have to wait at the pump for 5 minutes filling up the gasser. With the electric, filling up takes 10 seconds. Does it matter if it charges in 1.5 hours or 3 hours or 8 hours? No. Because you are going to be inside and it is sitting there anyways.

I put 40-80 miles a day on my EV, and I only ever use L1 charging. Plugged in at home, plugged in at work. It just sits there happily charging.

 

Very well put. None of us can change anyone else's mind about something. They have to change their own mind. Giving them real world, personal accounts can at least make them go "hmm" and maybe research it themselves further

I can remember my mother thinking every thing she got in the mail, other than bank statements, bills or letters from me, was laced with anthrax from the scare in D.C. After 9-11. I said to her, "mom, I'm sure the company who sends you envelopes of coupons or the people sending you invite to the local farmers market aren't trying to poison you, I open mine all the time and we're all fine. None of us were elected to congress.

I actually have been looking online for a used Tesla Roadster. I could only find one. It was 3000 miles away in California.

 

that's great that Tesla will work for you next year. I'm curious. The whole thing about redwoods and Death Valley has me perplexed. There are EV's that can charge at 10kW's per hour ... which translates out to about 80 miles over a 2hour time - or over 100 miles in less than a 3 hour time frame ... yes ... even at a paltry 240v. Are you in those spots for a shorter time then that? It's not that I'm trying to convince you of anything ... just sayin' ...
.

 

I wonder if the inductive charging that Toyota has patented will be efficient enough and cost effective enough to allow simply parking in your driveway or garage and be fully charged the next morning.

 

These things aren't new, so yes you can charge as fast as you want. The faster you want to charge the more expensive the equipment is going to be to build. This also has higher losses than a plug.

Most people don't spend the $30 or so to charge their cell phones wirelessly. Its not that bad plugging it in. I do get pissed when I get a rental car that can't take usb cables. I don't think plugging in you car is so hard that people are willing to pay for the charger hardware. I could be wrong.

 

I would discharge the Tesla's 260 mile range in about 3-and-a-half hours driving. 240V hookups only charge at 25 miles each hour. So I would not be able to continue my road trip. (In contrast my hybrid took me from LA to Death Valley to Yosemite Park & back to LA in a single trip.)

Similarly I drove all the way to Redwood national park & back halfway (San Francisco) These trips are possible with an EV after Tesla or ChaDemo installs their rapid chargers in those areas, but not currently. The slow 240V charger would force me and the Tesla to take 11 hours downtime every 3 hours.

 

So, do you drive from LA to Death Valley to Yosemite Park and back to LA every day? Or is this a trip you just take a few times a year?

 

Congratulations! You've discovered a route where current EVs won't work well. But for most people 50 weeks of the year they drive a dozen or two miles per day each way to work. This is where EVs need to start out. Eliminating the first (easy) half of gas usage will be much easier than eliminating the second half, such as your trip.

BTW, that LA->DV->Yosemite->LA trip is about 900 miles, IIRC. You did this in a "single trip?" What does that mean? No stops for gas? No stops overnight? What is the point in doing that trip if you aren't stopping to see anything?

Mike

 

I wonder of you could tow a Prius behind that Tesla just to charge a spare battery.

 

better do a bit more reading
#1. The twin charger option offered with the 85kWh pack can charge at around 20kw's. At that rate, in one hour you'd pick up about 60 miles of range - turning on driving style . . . all via 240v.

#2. After 3+ hours of driving, most need at least an hour break from driving any way.
But of course, we're not talking most here. We're all about the one in 50,000 that makes lots & lots of trips to the middle of no-where, and then apparently tags the destination, jumps back in the car, and immediately heads back. Yea, best for folks with that as their frequent driving regime to stick with some other mode.
.

 

Even at 60 miles that's still too slow. I like to drive, recharge, drive, recharge, drive. No breaks except grab a burger. So #1) I have plugshare. The most Tesla drivers are getting from 240V Level 2 chargers is 28 miles each hour (per the inboard computer). Some report as low as 22..... so about 25 miles on average.

Your conjectures are nice, but like college professors' theories..... it's the real world numbers that matter.

#2 Most people are also overweight (per the AMA, WHO, etc) but I don't mimick them. I do my own thing. I drove from LA to Death Valley to Yosemite and back in a single day. And LA to Redwood national forest to SF in one day.

A Tesla with supercharger could do it, but since no supercharger exists in these eastern or northern CA locations, it cannot. The Tesla driver (me) would have to waste 11 hours sitting on his non-overweight bottom. LOL! ;-) :-D

After Tesla (or ChaDemo) fills-in these gaps, such that I can charge in 30 minutes, then I'll buy one.

 

Great! you drove 900 miles. At an average of 60 mph (including some stops some slower roads) you had a great 15 hour day of driving. EVs are not able to do that at this point.

Big Deal! You and the other few dozen people that want to be able to do this shouldn't get an EV.

Your point, exactly, is?

Mike

 

I had no point. I was simply stating the Tesla would not work for me (I even said that in my first post but you missed it, because your too busy thumping your EV Zealot bible).

BTW I'm buying a used Tesla 85 as soon as I can find one for ~50,000. I said that before. You missed that too in your hyper defensive "electrics have no flaws" state.