Crank up the Press - Another Tesla Fire

You seem willing to to deny a cloud of related facts, and why wouldn't a leveraged 27% holder worry about his stock price? But that aside, and to reiterate, I will gladly let the evidence sift in over time. Put this thread in the parking lot and come back in a year. Or when DOT issues the recall.

 

Fires are part of owning a vehicle. When the vehicle is new and fires happen in an unexpected way the manufacturers like Porsche and Tesla investigate.

Tesla inspected the undercarrage of the 2 cars that had fire from damage there and the mexico crash as well as the cords g. They determined that the cars were safer than most on the market, but raised the height of the cars when going at highway speeds when they have the air suspension (a suspected factor) so that they are less likely to have road debris penetrate the bottom of the car. They also found a problem with charging, and sent out new cords and changed the charging and height software over the air. NHTSA is still checking on the problems and fix.

Porsche identified the problem, and has less than 800 cars with the potential problem, and is stoping them until the cars are repaired. They are giving loaners to owners and bring them to their home, towing their potential fire hazzard car to the dealership before anything might go wrong. NHTSA barely started looking into this problem.

Both companies are being very proactive at fixing any potential problem.

 

Just to correct the record. The Dateline NBC TV news show had nothing at all to do with the Pinto.
The Pinto was sold in the 1970s...ended around 1980. The Dateline TV show started in 1992.


Dateline NBC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note in the link where they discuss how Dateline rigged a GM pickup truck to explode on side impact.

The Pinto problem had to do with a rear end collision puncturing the fuel tank, which happened and their was a lawsuit. The flaw was known but decided to not be fixed but rather pay damages...according to this link:

Ford Pinto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Mike

 

You are right, it was 20/20 that showe the rigged ford, and it wasn't even a pinto not dateline. Read the article, put the wrong bogus news story in there. Anouther source of the media screwing it up.
Exploding Pintos - snopes.com

Ford should have fixed it faster, and gotten the story out, but that doesn't mean we should keep repeating the false stories just because we see them on tv. Seems there are often professionals working with trial lawyers rigging these things, and the tv news works with them. Higher ratings bigger lawsuits.

 

Mentioned at Snopes, but removed from Wikipedia at the beginning of the year.
http://www.pointoflaw.com/articles/The_Myth_of_the_Ford_Pinto_Case.pdf
The of summary of this is interesting: Pinto "madness" as a flawed landmark narrative: anorganization and network analysis. - Version details - Trove

 

Lots of lessons to be learned from the pinto case, but I guess I was a little bit unclear as to what they are.

1) The media will blow these things out of proportion. I think the lesson they leraned from getting caught is if you get caught you get a slap on the wrist, but sensationalizing these things gets you higher ratings. Mother Jones and 20/20 put out fake accounts of memos and video tape. With some politicians actively anti-plug-in on 24 hour news, its even worse for the Tesla and Volt. Tesla and GM have learned though to get their story out, and to fix safety issues quickly.

2) Ford was wrong! Even though it was only 27 people killed, saving even one would have been worth the fix. The car cost the equivallent of around $12,000 in today's inflation dollars. If they needed to sell it for $12,100 in 2003 or 2004 (first death involving this design was in 2002) it may have saved at least 1 of those lives. When the unintended acceleration case came before congress, we found toyota memos bragging about not doing similar fixes (brake interlocks) and saving money that probably cost lives.

3) Cars are inherantly dangerous. The telsa fires caused no injuries. The volt fire happened weeks after nhtsa safety testing. Both companies did some minor modifications to prevent this, but fires will happen. They don't need to kill. We don't need the media to blow it out of proportion.

 

Or perhaps when NHSTA closes the case without a recall. NHTSA closes investigation into fire accidents of Tesla Model S: Report

200 million miles driven, far fewer fires than other cars, and they are adding additional shielding to make these events even more rare.

 

Round 1 of many. It ain't over 'til it's over with the M1A1 Tesla.

 

Sorry for Tesla again.
They really need to solve the problem before people buy them in comfort.
Lithium battery is difficult to handle. That's why air plane can never let any lithium battery in their cargo area. Must carry within the passengers.(inside their laptop ,cell phones.....)

 

Not sure what you are saying here?
They closed the case.
Someday might another case be opened? Sure, but this particular case has been closed.

So you were willing to "revisit the thread" when the NHSTA issued a recall, but not when they cleared Tesla and didn't issue one?

 

I feel sorry for all the non-EV vehicle makers out their.
They really need to solve the problem of their cars catching on fire at double the rate of Tesla's.

Btw, rechargeable lithium batteries are not banned from planes, only the non-rechargeable ones.
I believe automobile gasoline can also not be carried as cargo.

 

I doubt they'd let me carry a can of petrol inside the cargo area or even store it in the hold in a normal automotive petrol tank. They'd carry it if it were in a container much stronger than found in any car. Same with a lead acid battery.

So whilst lithium batteries are quite reactive, it will be fine if kept in the correct and most suitable container. Same as anything.

 

I said: "I will gladly let the evidence sift in over time. Put this thread in the parking lot and come back in a year. Or when DOT issues the recall.

And I will.

Yes and no on Lithium batteries. Here is the relevant FAA circular:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/hazmat/passenger_info/media/faa_airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf

Most fuels are banned. The relevant FAA circular:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/hazmat/media/materialscarriedbypassengersandcrew.pdf

 

Airboss, you seem not to be able to reason. The FAA will allow lithium ion in cargo if they are installed in a device, and in the cabin. The tesla does not have loose spare batteries they are installed. The restriction is against loose bateries just in case they are improperely packed. They may hit metal and short circuit. On the other hand you would not be allowed to carry a gas can in cargo or in the cabin of a passenger plane, as this is a much more hazzardous material (it can spill and corrode and ruin other cargo even witout a fire.

 

You seem unable to read.

 

Yep, I can't read what you were trying to say, because its simply not there in the air regulations.

The air reguations say you can't carry loose spare lithium batteries in cargo, you certainly can ship lithium batteries when they are in a device whether in the passenger cabin or cargo.

Can you understand the regulations now?

 

Hence, "Yes and no on Lithium batteries." Got it now?

 

Let me clarify, the Federal air regulations consider lithium batteries safe to fly in a passenger plane when in a device. Hence, the FAA finds lithium batteries safe in a vehicle like the tesla. It is up to the NHTSA to determine whether they are safe in a crash, and the NHTSA has cleared tesla's batteries in their investigation.

That would be a yes.

What is a no, is gasoline is not allowed in cargo or the passenger compartment in a can or a device. The FAA considers it a hazzardous liquiid. Hazzardous liquids can fly, along with spare batteries in cargo, not passenger planes. The FAAs opinion on gasoline are because of flying. Gasoline is much safer when protected by a modern car. As such using Federal air regulations seems backwards.

The most you could say is the NHTSA may have done a bad job of investigating. Its investigation of the Toyota unintended acceleration was shoddy bordering on criminal behavior. Toyota actually engaged in criminal behavior and the NHTSA did not notice it until many people died. The GM ignition switch looks like GM engaged in criminal behaviour and the NHTSA may have looked the other way.

On tesla batteries, all of the owners of burned cars asked tesla to sell them anouther car. No one was injured. This is as opposed to hundereds of probable deaths from toyota's defects and 13 probable deaths from gms defects. Tesla as opposed to gm and toyota worked with instead of against the NHTSA.

 

Once again, can you read?

Lithium ion (rechargeable lithium, lithium ​

polymer, LIPO) as used in small consumer ​

electronics, such as cell phones, tablets, ​

cameras, PDAs, and laptops. ​

​

Limited to 8 grams ​

or less equivalent lithium content​

(100 watt hours or less) per battery. ​

​

(Outside the US the limit is 160 watt hours.) ​

​

Larger lithium ion, more than 8 grams but not more​

than 25 grams equivalent lithium content per battery, ​

or 100-300 watt hours per battery. (Outside the US the​

limit is 160 watt hours.) ​

​

Limit: Two (2) batteries per passenger ​

​

Lithium metal (non-rechargeable) as used in ​

small consumer electronics such as cameras, ​

LED flashlights, watches, etc.​

(2 grams or less lithium per battery). ​

None of these are going to get your Tesla very far.

 

Yes I can, and am a private pilot, and understand FARs.

I understand you want to say Teslas are unsafe because you can't take the batteries out of the car, and put them in your checked luggage. You can also not check your car. And yes you can't carry on or check the gasoline from your car.

I'm done air boss. If you think a tesla is unsafe because you can't check it on a plane, please attempt to check your gasoline or car.