Fight OPEC? Vote with your wallet

Same happened here, and you go the way of the dinosaur unless you make a compromise or alternative choice.

I'm not saying it's perfect and people still moan and grumble while still trying to run their Pajero as a daily runner on a minimum wage job.

Company cars helped too though. A company realises it saves significant fuel costs by insisting someone has a more economical choice. Sure the employee grumbles a bit, but then they realise the diesel Mercedes is just as good and the company saves £1,500 a year. Multiply that over a fleet of a few hundred cars and the savings are obvious.

Don't see many old Jeeps around now though. They've all been scrapped due to being uneconomic to run.

 

So, true. A friend is thinking of getting a new car, and has asked me which hybrids have a V6. I try to tell him that the really low end torque of the electric motor means it will feel like a more powerful car on his commute, but I guess anything with lower rated power rating than the V6 Camry he drives now will be a step down.

Going with aluminum for most of the body(frame and bed liner will be steel) for the F150 is a risk for Ford due to this same mentality. Consumers have this perception that it won't be tough enough for a truck.

 

That did happen here. Until about 2000, most people would have said that anything with less than 6 cylinders and 4 litres was not a real car, and Falcons and Commodores dominated the market.

Fuel prices have gone up gradually, so that's had a bit of an effect. But I think that small, fast, fun cars made a difference. Things like Subaru Impreza WRXs and Mitsubishi Evos showed that you could still be a "real man" with a 2.0 litre car. And that steadily made normal sub 2.0 cars respectable.

 

These are twin turbo soap up 2.ol engine cars, regular 2.0l are still not man enough.

 

I would rather keep my balls on my person, than in my garage...

As always YMMV.

 

So would you be in favor of the government increasing the cost of fuel. like with a $1 a gallon save the environment tax

 

Yes, but perhaps not for the reasons you guess at.

I think that cost externalities have to be taxed, and the money expressly spent to correct the externality. I know that our spend happy congress would have trouble being disciplined, but that does not change the argument.

 

...the other tax neutrality argument is give some money back to lower incomes to compensate for the regresssive nature of carbon/gaso taxes...

 

Or they could just buy more economical cars?

Dead easy. And there are plenty of fairly economical cars in America without having to get a hybrid. Whether they want to get economical cars is another matter. Same here even now. People jumble about our $8 a gallon prices but drive a 2 litre car getting 30 mpg. Get rid and get a Fiesta or Corsa that'll do 45-50.

 

I've heard the argument, but I am not keen to socially engineer the poorer classes. The real cost of fossil fuels should be on the price tag. Period.

 

I think that gas price has more to do with making the most profit possible and little to do with cost of oil. If price at the pump goes to high, I don't drive as much, I don't spend as much, ect.. I still have the same responce to gas price, even though I now drive cars that get much better mpg. I think gas companys know this and charge as much as they can without causing drivers to go into this survival mode. because that would cut profits and slows the economy a lot.

If the above is correct then raising the gas tax would not change the long term price at the pump, unless it was a large amount that would reduce profits of the oil co. to a point that it makes business sence.

I think we should raise the gas tax and these funds should be used to fix and maintain the roads. there has been a lot of talk about taxing cars that get really good mpg. this would increase $ very little and make buying a car that gets less mpg more likely.

I hate paying tax, but I think a large gas tax would help us move to more fuel effecient cars and fix the hwy system.

 

The price of oil is set on a world exchange, and IIRC refinery cost pass-through has been quite constant for years -- around 8%. Moreover, a look around petrol prices in different countries is pretty good evidence that your supposition is incorrect.

I completely agree that more expensive fuel would lead to people choosing more fuel economical vehicles, but I don't think I have the right to force that choice on people. For similar reasons I do not care to force shipping companies to use rail rather than trucks, even though I would love to see both happen.

OTOH, hiding the true cost of the oil economy is idiotic. Include externalities in the pricing through taxation, and the corruption, special interests, skewed national interests, and irrational consumer behavior become bad memories.

 

If the oil companys are simply passing on the extra cost for oil, why are they making record profits?

I said charge road tax at a level that will actually be enough to get the roads fixed. and at the same time will reduce oil companys ability to earn record profits. Why in the world would oil companys earn record profits with a down economy? I beleive it is because they have a larger profit margin.

The govt. has been using tax incentives to encourage people to buy energy saving things like windows, appliances, solar panels, plug in hybrid and elec cars. we had cash for clunkers, current road tax is not enough to fix bridges and hwys an increase in these fees will encourage purchase of cars that get better mpg.

 

California is our highest tax bite at ~$0.72/gal (state+Fed) and some other states are trying to match CA with yearly increases possibly pushing them past CA. CA is going to have work harder if they want to stay at No. 1. Anyways that's getting to be >20% total tax. VA is not playing the higher gaso tax game, but we're different.

 

Note that he said the refineries where passing on the extra cost. The oil companies are more than just refineries, they are often the producers pumping it out of the ground too. The later is where the big profit is. And why numerous authoritarian countries claim that profit for themselves.

Otherwise, much of your pricing comments in post #51 are a description of capitalism in general. Any company that sets prices low enough that customers don't have to think about whether or not buy, is throwing away profit. That is one reason why American medical care is so expensive.

 

I guess the oil refineries is what I was thinking of, BP, Exxon, Chevron. I think they are both producers and refiners. unless I am mistaken they have made more money the last 5 years they have ever made.

 

Exactly.

The other piece of this price puzzle is the extreme speculative market, but that is just a reflection of dwindling supplies, the so called 'peak oil.'