What if tow trucks carried tire plugs and could 'fix' (some) flats?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by davekro, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. davekro

    davekro Member

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    I cannot disagree with you. And I understand liability waivers don't hold up often, so back to longer (than the tow drive) liability, would seem problematic for insurers when some people do look to lay blame where it may well not lie, to get a pay out.

    When you put it that way, even if the 'actual' risk of a failure is found to be minuscule (facts not in evidence ;) ), there are enough yahoos out their to make the insurance companies say, no thank you.

    I'm letting go of the lightning strike likelihood of roadside assistance pluging tires. ;)
     
  2. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :) I will state, patching a tire from the inside will always be the preferred method. Plugging under the right circumstances is acceptable to ME (small screw, nail in tread). I haven't been convinced to change my thinking. Two sides to every discussion.
     
  3. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    You do realize that this "unknown Tow Truck operator" is probably going to connect a winch to your car, raise it in the air, and then drive the truck/car combination, in traffic, to a repair shop, right? If the TTO isn't competent to plug a tire then (s)he probably isn't the best person to have towing your car, either.

     
  4. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Knowing how to tow a vehicle is not a qualifier to improperly repair a tire in the field, on or off the car?

    The proper repair of a punctured tire requires a plug for the hole and a patch for the area inside the tire that surrounds the puncture hole. Punctures through the tread can be repaired if they are not too large, but punctures to the sidewall should not be repaired. Tires must be removed from the rim to be properly inspected before being plugged and patched.

    Also see:

    Tire Tech Information - Flat Tire Repairs
     
  5. davekro

    davekro Member

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    I believe plugging a tire from the outside was standard procedure for tens of years BEFORE 'Patch and plug (from inside) became the tire industry requirement. I know gas stations used to plug my tires for many years before I started doing it myself. So when did Patch and plug become tire shops required repair method? So have a significant % of the hundreds of thousands (WAG) of tires that were plugged from the outside by shops, gas stations, et al had "Failures". I doubt you could find that there were significant failures. I'll stand corrected if you can. Otherwise, to my experience, plugging from the outside is a perfectly acceptable lifetime of tire repair. You can believe differently, and that is fine. But unless you come up with facts and stats proving there is a problem with exterior plugging, save your breath on plug and patch being the only way to go.

    And as far as "would I trust any body to plug a tire"? Well if I knew they had done it at least ONCE and understood the process, YES I WOULD.

    As a matter of fact, I had planned to teach my wife how to do it on the next flat any of our cars had. Ha, well my belief that our thoughts to create things in our life (another discussion for another forum ;) ) came true way sooner than I expected! My wife noticed the tire warning light came on this morning. The LR tire pressure was down from the normal 42 to 35.5 psi. I looked at the tire when we got where we were going 2 miles from home. Yup, a sheet metal screw was strait into the tread about 2" from the edge. This was the perfect opportunity to show my wife where the plug kit, tools, and 12v compressor were. I had her lay out all the stuff, attach the compressor and prep for pulling the screw out. She was easily able to pull the screw out with the vise grips, insert the rasp and clean the hole. I had her try a standard size plug, lubed with cement, but no way it would go in. Glad we had the smaller diameter plugs. This was my first experience with the small plugs and she was able to get it in without too much effort. She banged her elbow on the car with her 'quick pull' to remove the hook, but that was not too bad. I told her if there is no blood, she got off good. :LOL:

    Bottom line, she did a great job! I am proud of her that she was willing to try and push past the unfamiliarity to successfully plug and fill the tire. Now she feels confident that she will not be stranded for this type of problem at work or on the road. And yes, I trust her "first time plug repair!" The plug is in, with glue and the leak is sealed. Now both her and I feel more confident that she is that much less likely to be stranded with a tow as the only option. End of story.
     
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  6. davekro

    davekro Member

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    IMHO (and no I do not play a tire professional on TV) the overkill of an interior plug and patch might add safety and security if tires were ran in their most extreme tested conditions. Say driving across Death Valley with 120 degre Far. temps at the maximum speed rating and maximum weight rating for the tire and throw in some rough terrain. I think 99% of tires never see the extremes for which they are spec'ed.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    several models now come w/out spares. Regardless of which model you have, spare or no spare, it 'takes away' space that might be used for something else. The smaller the ride, the more difficult it gets to give up the space that a spare takes up. I've seen several clever 'work-arounds' accomplished, so that the owner doesn't feel their spare is in the 'middle of your cargo area'. Think of it as a puzzle that you want to solve, rather than, 'it's hopeless'.
    .
     
  8. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    http://www.rma.org/wp-content/uploads/prp_wallchart1111.pdf
    http://www.techtirerepairs.com/_assets/Documents/Improper_Repair_Consequences.pdf

    davekro, I commend you for taking the time to teach you Wife anything about cars. That said, you asked for data, here it is. I will waste no more time trying to explain industry standards and why they are, because frankly I do not think you care nor would it make a difference in your mind.

    You car, your tires, your Wife , your life....but what about the others on the freeway going bumper to bumper 55-75 mph? Have a nice day.
     
  9. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :confused:Whether your car is towed to have a flat fix, it's properly patched, plugged, or you plug it yourself, "others on the freeway" are placed in less imminent danger than the host of other causes of accidents.
     
  10. davekro

    davekro Member

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    Frodoz,
    Thanks for taking the time to post the links to the plug w/ patch procedure and the large payout law suit that made that procedure to be required of tire repair facilities. we'll agree to disagree on the safety of a plug only when, especially when the puncture is known to be fresh ( no rusted belts) and the tire was not run flat on the sidewall. It would be interesting to see statistical data on plug failures, though it is clear that one failure, VERY unfortunately causing fatalities, carries a lot of weight to change commercial tire repair procedures. I appreciate the info you gave.

    Sincerely best to you and yours.
    Dave
     
  11. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    I read both links. The first one is just industry recommendations, no evidence. The second one cites exactly two cases. In the first one the repair was performed by a dealer, not a "civilian," and "While the type of repair performed is not known, TIAs Kevin Rohlwing suggests that this case will be quite important to the tire industry and anyone who handles tires. " So no real supporting evidence here, either.

    The second case includes a photo of what clearly is a repair made to the edge of the tread or the upper sidewall, both of which are excluded from safe repair with a plug anyway.
     
  12. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    OK then you show where "current Industry Standards" says a plug only is preferred, acceptable and legal...and then give me a list of Tire Shops by name that will do it. You can not. How would you like it if I did this kind of repair on an Aircraft tire. I would loose my job, my license and probably do some time...when...not if...the tire blew.

    This argument is utter nonsense and anyone who does a "plug only" repair is either broke, ignorant or both. Out.
     
  13. sosarahsays

    sosarahsays Member

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    My front driver's side tire went flat a few weeks ago. AAA came, took the wheel off, said it was very clearly a nail hole (right in the middle of the tire), and plugged it on the spot. So far, so good.
     
  14. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    -1
     
  15. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    ...and you do what for a living Michael33?
     
  16. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Better yet...ANYONE...show me where a plug only is preferred, acceptable and legal on cars and light trucks...let alone a Prius.
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I think you're sincere in your concerns.

    I've done a couple of plug repairs so far (as mentioned up the page). So far so good with both. They're not just semi-sealed, they're tight.

    An externally applied plug does quite effectively fill the void created by the puncture. And use of the reaming tool in advance provides some uniformity of fit. And the plug leaves a flared-out loop on the inside; it's not going anywhere.

    Maybe not that black-or-white?
     
  18. Michael33

    Michael33 Member

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    I'm not a mechanic, but I have played the part in shadetree dramas. Seriously, there is a greater risk of forgetting to tighten the lug nuts when replacing a flat with a spare, or of dropping the car on yourself, or of being hit by passing vehicles while changing a tire, than there is of suffering a catastrophic tire failure from a plug repair, provided it isn't the sidewall that was damaged. And yet I don't see people railing against the terribly dangerous practice of mounting one's own spare tire by the side of the road...
     
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  19. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :( This type of statement lends nothing to a good discussion.
     
  20. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    It appears that the lawsuit wasn't so much about a plug repair, that it was the tire was beyond repair and the dealer shouldn't have attempted to repair it. I also noticed that it was around 11 months between the repair and the accident. I wonder if there was ever an appeal.
    Jury Awards $14 million in Ford Rollover Wrongful Death Case