Tensions concerning charging stations.

Driving at 55MPH kills range. It's much worse in Winter.

 

I was going 65mph for 7 miles on ev on highway last week. Ice didn't kick on till I ran out of juice. I didn't think pip can go that fast on juice.

 

ChargePoint doesn't set the rates (unlike Blink). The owner of the charging station sets a price using a billing model supported by ChargePoint's software and ChargePoint acts as a billing transaction clearinghouse and typically collects a fee for each charging session billed. Prices can be set by the hour with a one-time switch to a higher hourly rate or in states where it is legal an owner can bill by the number of kWh consumed. The actual price values per hour or per kWh can be set to pretty much any multiple of $.01.

 

Today I charged at a free city parking garage with a free charging station. In the space next to me there was a LEAF that had been plugged in for 18 1/2 hours....

 

What ever the reason, and I assume that there are many different reasons, smooth and efficient operation of charging facilities seems to be an unreachable dream. Some charging facilities are provided to attract customers but seem not to accomplish that purpose. Other charging facilities are to encourage electric vehicles but seem to be the source of conflict between EV owners. Why should there be a continued expansion of a charging infrastructure if we cannot get along? Is it up to those who pay for the charging system to police it?

My choice to charge at home is confirmed.

 

The infrastructure needs to be regulated and controlled...because everyone is out for themselves otherwise. That's how society works. How's the saying go...a person is smart...people are stupid.

 

There is probably a critical minimum ratio of stations to EVs, and it hasn't been achieved in the places with conflict. As soon as you have enough stations to support local EVs - with extra capacity to allow for offline units - the conflict is gone. If EVs were flying off the lots then reaching this ratio would be impossible. However, with our gas-centric society it seems quite achievable...

 

The lesson I draw is that resources given away free are poorly allocated or misused.

Towns without water meters have homes that waste a lot of water. Free charging stations get blocked by people who park long after their charging has finished.

 

I think that free stations should only be free for 1 hr, maybe 2

Mike

 

I think free stations should go away. Nobody is giving me free gas for my Prius.

 

+1
Ask any landlord who doesn't charge separately for electric or heat!

 

I think that setting up free charge stations was a nice idea in theory, but in practice is not a workable model with most users being practicing humans. I think the .15¢ per kWh billing model is workable. This is a common (my) home charge cost. I'm guessing that the billing models used by ChargePoint/hardware owners and others may be too limited. Someone in this discussion said the mall could only change to a model where they charge a fee for use, if that fee was $1.00/ hour. Being little competition and somewhat significant upfront capital cost to install and pay for the equipment, it will be a while before any economy of scale is reached. So I think stations are subsidized by city, state, grants, host retailer or business parks (but I'm just guessing). At .15¢/ kWh and assuming 240v charge speed, the gross income per charge plug would be $2.00 or less per day, or less than $44/ month (22 work days). That is a looooonng term return on investment. (so would not happen w/o being subsidized)

Maybe the business model plans, or the laws controlling them need to be revised.

A follow up question to the city (or mall?) in this case, when the $1.00/ hour is stated as the only model available to charge customers for kWh's is: Why? Who do you and we need to speak to to get that constraint revised? Hardware vendor, ChargePoint (etc.), city, state or federal officials responsible for the laws/rules governing charge station use and deployment? Maybe they 'beta' laws/rules need tweeking. Maybe user feedback could help that happen. Even if it is harder to change existing stations, wouldn't it be nice that better, more real world workable rules/regulations might be possible for future (and hopefully) widespread EV charge station deployment?

I don't know the answers. But I know that armed with the experience to date, smart folks might arrive at better or at least more varied options for charge station plans.

 

Good comments!

I can see the merit in charges which will get people from leaving their cars in a space. Two problems with that:

1. It will not stop people from parking in charging spaces without charging,

2. People like me will not use the chargers because it is such an unreasonably expensive way too charge.
.

I suspect that there simply needs to be more charging spaces than are needed and/or they need to have an attendant like a service station. Human nature seems not to get along but rather to look out for ourselves. And those who make regulations necessary are the first to complain about them.

 

Yes, someone said that here but it doesn't make sense to me. It is unlikely to be a limitation imposed by ChargePoint.

ChargePoint actually recommends that station owners set up a per-kWh billing policy for people who plug in their cars in the few states where that is legal (such as California).

See:
Charged EVs | Proceed with caution: charging for EV charging


Billing per-kWh is a win for some plugin hybrids and other cars which have slower charging rates because they have smaller batteries than most BEVs. A policy of $1 per hour is a poor price for a Prius Plugin that charges at around 2 kW and gets excellent gas mpg. For a Volt that charges around 3 kW and gets 40 mpg it is roughly about the same cost per mile for either gas or electricity. A new LEAF or Tesla that charges at around 6 kW meanwhile gets a good price at around $.16 per kWh. So, a per-hour pricing policy strongly discourages Prius Plugin owners from offsetting gasoline usage.

Ecotality published a detailed research document on state electricity pricing laws and regulations earlier this year.

See:
http://www.theevproject.com/cms-assets/documents/103425-835189.ri-2.pdf


Ideally, I think there should be a minimum fee to discourage plugging in for just a few minutes at a time. Then, electricity should be billed per-kWh at a price which covers the actual utility cost and promotes overnight charging at home when the utility grid can handle more cars. Finally, when the battery is full and power stops flowing above a certain minimal rate the pricing should switch from per-kWh over to a per-hour parking space fee to encourage drivers to move their cars to regular parking spaces.

For example: $.50 minimum, $.20 per kWh, $2 per hour after battery is full.

Unfortunately, the ChargePoint station firmware and billing system cannot presently support the option of switching from per-kWh to per-hour billing when the car stops drawing power.

I actually met with a ChargePoint founder and a senior engineer at their offices in Silicon Valley earlier this year to suggest that they add support for billing policies like that in a future software upgrade. They seemed interested but I don't know if or when any support might actually be implemented. If and when it is supported, the update can be rolled out through over-the-air software upgrades to existing station hardware.

 

For those who are curious as why per-kwh billing is illegal in many states: Since one is charging based on the amount of electrical energy dispensed, this makes the owner of the charging station into an electricity provider, subject to state utility regulations. When charging by time, you are just renting access to the charging station, and the fact that it is dispensing electricity is incidental. Isn't bureaucracy wonderful?

 

Ok, I was that said individual. I just got off the phone with ChargePoint. They have a significantly different story than the info I got from the City of Roseville as I posted earlier. ChargePoint told me it is not a $1/hr charge to them from the city, but that everyone is subject to a 10% fee paid to ChargePoint - Roseville and everyone else.

So I clarified that, for example, if Roseville placed a metered charge of $1/hr, Roseville would then have to pay ChargePoint $0.10/hr. I have left a message with Roseville to call me back on this issue since they had previously told me ChargePoint would charge them $1/hr regardless.

ChargePoint also confirmed that California allows station owners to charge per kWh.

I think Jeff N's idea for billing is great.

 

I agree, a reasonable charge per KWhr followed by a short grace period then a big per hour charge for those that continue to squat at the station.

 

Was it using L1? or L2. Because charging L1, you're only putting about 1kWh into the battery per hour ... so if bone dry, the 21kWh usable part of the traction pack can easily take over 19 hours. At L1, the RAV4-EV would take over 48hrs !!! I'm guessing you'd have mentioned it, if it wasn't L2 ... and not making excuses for bad behavior - just throwing it out so folks can check before they crucify.
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NOW I see the value of a level 2 home charge station for the larger EV battery capacities than our PIPS. Thanks for the perscpective.

 

This morning when I arrived at my usual ChargePoint station near work there was a BMW Active E parked in the adjacent spot... actively charging. Pretty sharp PEV! His license plate is "PURE EV".
I left my charge door opened- then texted the owner (I had his phone # from a previous encounter last summer) to please plug me in and start my charge once he was done charging. I got a text from him at 10am that he had started my charge and I just retrieved my fully charged PIP from the ChargePoint station at 11:39am.
It's great when you can deal with reasonable people....