electric miles are more costly than gas miles???

I figured out electric is approx 4 cents a mile. For 50 mpg hybrid driving it's 6 cents a mile. So not much savings on pure EV for me. But I will hardly need to visit a gas station.

 

Where are you from? Electricity expensive there? Usually 1-2 cents per mile EV here.

 

NJ. Electric in my NJ home is 17 cents per kWh which includes the delivery fee as well. 6 cents delivery fee 11 cents supply.


Nexus 7 ? 4

 

Shouldn't be 6 cents a mile if you are paying 17 cents

 

Oh... someone do the math for me please. If it's cheaper I'm happy. The pip charges 3 kwh per charge I am assuming. So that's 51 cents per charge for 13 miles EV .

 

This whole issue of which fuel is 'cheeper'. Don't mean to burst any ballons here but hey, how about if the U.S. stops subsidizing gas (oh, wait ... maybe we like the idea big oil pays no income tax, year after year, decade after decade). If we paid $7 or $8/gallon like much of the rest of the world, we could put to bed which fuel is 'cheepr' ... I mean if we don't want to count extranious costs - that'd be one way to do it.

 

I'm not looking at political costs. Just if I charge my pip if it costs less money than going to the gas station. I'm just curious. The car gets such good mileage it's just a curiosity more than anything. The car feels like a gadget more than a car.

 

Your calcs are close enough, and point out the real value of a PiP: it encourages you to take steps to get out of the expensive tier(s). Some people put up PV, others learn to use less energy in the home. The really clued-in people do both.

I have posted threads here on PC regarding energy conservation in my home showing the decrease from over 1000 kWh a month 10 years ago to our current average consumption of about 105 kWh a month. There is also tons of information on the web related to home energy conservation. This is a great place to start.

Oh, and I agree with your conclusion that switching to TOU is likely a fool's errand.

Good luck!

 

Sounds about right; perhaps the EV is costing ~15% more than you calculated because of winter driving <<shrug>>

The arguments that a PiP can go further than 13 miles a charge (meaning the car uses less than 230 Wh/mile) might be true for some drivers, but those same drivers would also do better than 50 mpg with a regular Prius.

 

Not in the winter time, especially on shorter trips.

 

Hi Mark,

I know what you mean, but those same trips may have EV drivers spending a lot of electricity to heat the cabin. And on longer winter trips the EV driver continues to spend electrons to heat the cabin while the regular Prius just uses waste heat. So in end it is a YMMV thing, but I 'm pretty confident in saying that the large majority of winter drivers will find that the EV takes a larger hit in energy/mile than the Prius. Zythryn has reported 15-20% IIRC additional winter losses with his Tesla compared to a regular Prius. The PiP is I suspect more because of less insulation.

 

You are right, it's a total YMMV thing. Definitely less miles/range during the winter. But if someone has a lot of 1-5 miles trips in mild winter weather than you can do those easily with no heat.

 

May I quote you to my wife ?

 

The way I understand it...the large US oil companies pay no US income taxes in the same way that Apple doesn't (or minimizes it). This is a US tax policy issue. So you might hear that oil companies pay lots of taxes...it is just not much in the US. But then GE also doesn't pay any US taxes for the same reasons. But I don't really think you can say we are subsidizing oil any more than we are subsidizing iPhones and iPads. It is mostly because we penalize US companies for bringing profits back into the US.

From a Forbes article:
ExxonMobil in its 2009 annual report to the SEC, recorded a larger income tax expense than any other U.S. company last year, some $17.6 billion, or 47% of pretax earnings. Exxon’s peers Chevron andConocoPhillips likewise recorded similarly high effective tax rates. The oil companies are oddities among the multinationals because many of the oil-rich countries where they do business levy even higher taxes than the U.S.
...
Though Exxon’s financial statement’s don’t show any net income tax liability owed to Uncle Sam, a company spokesman insists that once its final tax bill is figured, Exxon will owe a “substantial 2009 tax liability.” How substantial? “That’s not something we’re required to disclose, nor do we.”
Naturally the Obama administration wants to put an end to this. It has proposed doing away with tax deferrals on overseas income.
What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes - Forbes

Mike

 

My reported watt-hours per mile has been as low as 170 wh/mile in the summer and now about 190 wh/m. In my 2010 Prius I would get about 50 mpg (winter) to 55 mpg (summer).

I'm getting 55 - 60+ mpg in the PIP due to eliminating most short trips. (I should clarify that this is just HV mode driving...overall I am 180+ mpg including EV miles)

Mike

 

And I manage 65 - 70 mpg in our Prius Vagon in balmy weather, 60 mpg these days. On long trips in cold winter weather I run ~ 50 mpg for an annual MPG of about 53, weighted for my considerable long trip use of the car.

I conclude from all this that if I was a PiP owner, I would likely get 15+ miles a trip of EV in nice weather, 12.5 miles year round and about the same MPG as my Prius Victoria when EV ran out.

Comparo for me ?
Well for the petrol miles about the same: 5.66 cents/mile
And for the dozen or so EV miles a day:
13.5 cents/kwh * 3 kwh = 41 cents. 41/12.5 = 3.24 cents a mile

 

[quote="markabele, post: 1912335, member: 88622] But if someone has a lot of 1-5 miles trips in mild winter weather than you can do those easily with no heat.[/quote]
Heat or not is generally determined by the chatter method. If my teeth start chattering, the heat is going on.

 

Okay, so maybe we don't ask oil companies to start paying their fair share of corporate taxes. Can't we at least stop giving them 36 to 50 billion dollars of your tax dollars in welfare handouts? Last time I checked, it seemed likely they might survive without our help... Fossil Fuel Subsidies in the U.S. - Oil Change International or Fossil Fuel Subsidies in the U.S. - Oil Change International

 

Deleted duplicate post

 

From that link can you name one oil industry specific subsidy? Articles like this are popular, but always seem to quote other groups' studies, then mention the defense budget or road funding. I guess depletion allowances might qualify, but every industry depreciates things. I'd like to believe that there is a (large) specific subsidy we can take away...but I'd also like to stop subsidizing iPhone, PCs, movies, athletes, etc.

Mike