600,000km taxi report

Interesting details, thanks for writing about your experience. Is there any pattern to the problems that you have seen with the 2010 cars? You mentioned multiple transaxle problems. What were the symptoms or what repairs were needed?

 

Your issues with the GenIII are echoed by Grumpy, a cabby on this site in the UK.

As for the GenII traction control you can disable it, it is just a chicken dance to do so. I am interested in your million mile update.

 

Would love to know how to do this also. Some US procedures don't work on Australian Prius though :-(

 

Copied from a previous post of mine:

I am 100% sure you can.

Keep in mind Prius traction control is not to help or provide traction but to ease the load step on the MG's with sudden wheel spin. Therefore it is more dangerous than in a normal car for different reasons.

As for how:
1) Car off
2) If not on flat surface, apply parking brake
3) Turn on, (Not READY) -- Press Power button twice, with no foot on brake
4) Pump gas pedal, pedal to the metal, 3 times
5) Shift to neutral (note: this requires you to press down the brake pedal then hold the shifter over for a second or two. Release brake pedal after in neutral)
6) Pump the gas pedal, pedal to the metal, 3 times
7) Face towards Japan and sacrifice a small woodland creature to the Toyoda empire
8) Put back in park
9) Pump gas pedal 3 times again, same deal
10) Car will beep, MFD will display "Problem!" and have a car with an '!' in it.
11) Step on the brake, press the power button.

Car will now be READY with the "Problem!" error. The engine will always run and not shut off regardless of stage. Traction control and stability control is disabled.

If your wheel spins and then suddenly gets traction, all that excess energy is funneled through MG2. That means lots of current, so overheating of the motor windings, perhaps other bads. Toyota explicitly states to never ever ever ever drive in this mode. This is just for diagnostics on a lift or dyno.

And step 7 is merely a suggestion, it could be skipped if you are in a rush.

 

I know that Shaneb has had to replace some transaxles on the gen II cabs that he maintains up in Cairns. I had a look for the correspondence that I had with Shane on the issue, but cannot find it. I do remember that he did comment that the drivers in Cairns drive in two modes - pedal to the metal, then brake to the metal, so really give the transaxle a hard time. Do you rotate your drivers on your cars, or do they always drive the same car? If always the same car, it maybe the driver on your problem car who is really the problem.

 

One question I have about taxi use in the US and Europe or Australia?

Here a taxi must return to a designated taxi rank after a job (or pull into a quiet side road) and wait for the next customer or radio job. Do cabs in the US do the same or are they continuously on the move driving round and round the city waiting to be hailed?

Interesting article from the op about the gen3 and how it's not as long lasting as the original gen2. I'd be curious to know what sort of mileage the batteries were failing and whether it ties in with the experience of Socrates or my weaker battery? Oh, to the op, try paying over $8 a US gallon

 

Could we get some more details?

When we had our first, 2010 Prius, oil change at 5,000 miles / 8,000 km, I had the transaxle oil changed and a sample sent for analysis. I was disappointed to find the amount of 'debris' found in the oil. Small machine particles along with sealant. The oil viscosity had already decreased by 5% and 15% is considered worn out. BUT this may not be the problem(s) you've seen.

There no longer is a coolant channel in the transaxle but rather it has an engine pump and secondary gear, 'sling-oil' system. This means MG2 and MG1 when the car is just sitting there is limited to convection cooling. It is entirely possible that there is not enough cooling air flow in a 2010 Prius in cab-duty, sitting still to handle the excess heat. A Prius-aware scanner should be able to capture some metrics. But it may mean the transaxle oil needs more frequent changing to deal with the heat damage.

I suspect there may be a latent, traction battery cooling problem in cab service. Do you have a Prius-aware scanner that we might be able to take some measurements? In particular, I'm interested in change in traction battery temperature from 'cold-soak' to mid-shift and at shift-end. We would also like temperatures measured from the transaxle.

Bob Wilson

 

[quote="bwilson4web, post: 1906100, member: 10647" But it may mean the transaxle oil needs more frequent changing to deal with the heat damage.[/quote]

Which Toyota Europe suggest is sealed for life! Perhaps changing at 40,000 miles will be prudent for 'hard' use?

 

Hi Bob,

I am interested to know where you sent the oil for testing. I have mine changed at 103k km and was thinking to have the oil tested. Nothing in Australia but found some companies that do the testing in the US.


Galaxy Nexus ?

 

I use R&G Labs: R&G Laboratories, Inc. - Home

My standard test has been running about $20 (US):

• standard oil test - all the elements and particles
• 40C and 100C viscosity (extra)

They can also do a microscopic analysis that will provide details about what is in the oil. This is extra, $50, but gives a lot additional details. I've attached the reports. BTW, R&G holds the samples for 30 days if you want to order additional tests. They send the results via e-mail.

BTW, feel free to ask them to include my virgin Type WS oil sample test, 350120, with your results.

Now I'm going to 'talk trash' about two other oil testing services without mentioning their names:

• Company A - does not offer 40C/100C viscosity testing which also means they do not include the viscosity index, another metric, that helps evaluate the oil status.
• Company B - considers their report 'copyrighted' and not to be shared with others.

Always ask! Companies can change their offering and policies and asking is alway OK.

Bob Wilson

 

My recommendation is:

• change transaxle oil with the first engine oil change - this will remove ~75% of the initial debris load left over from manufacturing and early service. This debris includes small metal shavings and transaxle sealant beads that show up in the first 5,000 miles / 8,000 km. . . . Use a 1 cup (0.5 L) sample for initial evaluation including microscopic analysis.
• change transaxle oil about 15,000 miles / 25,000 km later - this will remove ~75% of the remaining, initial 25%. It in effect is the flush. . . . Use a 1 cup (0.5 L) sample for follow-up. Use the % of viscosity change to determine how much long the next service interval should be.
• change transaxle oil about 50,000 miles / 80,000 km - again it removes ~75% of any wear material and viscosity loss. . . . Repeat the oil testing advice from before.

I do not have enough information to predict what 'generic' oil change intervals should be for taxi service or any other. But the economics are: (1) ~$200 for transaxle oil change, and (2) ~$20 for oil analysis. With the analysis, the owner can make an informed decision instead of some Internet blowhard's mad ramblings. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

In Sydney (I cannot comment about other states, or even other towns/cities) the rules vary for each network. In my network, we are not required to ever be on a rank. We can cruise around to find the next job, or we can join a rank, or just sit by the road waiting for the next radio job. I tend to mix all three in my day. I start the day with the car in my driveway and wait for a radio job. I then spend most of the morning cruising, but if I find that there are too many empty cabs and no fares, I will join a rank. There are a couple of drivers who I see regularly parked by the side of the road waiting for the next radio job.

I know that the largest network in Sydney operates on the basis that radio jobs are offered to cabs on the nearest rank. If no one wants the job, it then gets offered to those cruising the area.

By the way, the op is a Canadian.

 

In the US, I believe this depends upon the taxi's location, whether it is servicing a major airport (which usually requires the taxis to wait in a designated line), etc.

New York City, heavily dependent upon taxi transportation, is one locale where the taxis are continuously cruising around in between carrying fares.