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A/C Coolant Leak...? Stumped, but that's easily accomplished

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Chopperman83, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Chopperman83

    Chopperman83 Junior Member

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    I have a 2006 Prius. I must admit that I've never been satisfied with the A/C performance, but now I'm even less impressed.

    I had the A/C system serviced at an "after market" place as our dealership calls them (about 2 weeks ago). They added just under a half pound of coolant, oil, and UV dye. The system was much improved after the "after market" shop serviced it and stayed that way right up until it stopped cooling. Two days ago, the A/C stopped cooling and I'm in town so I stop by the dealer. They do the same basic checks I did with the same results - checked the fuses-OK, checked the lines and connections with a UV emitter-OK.

    They evacuated the system - removing 0.16 pounds of whatever was left in the system - and recharged the system with 1.06 pounds of 134a, etc. Assuming these numbers were accurate, the system was nearly empty. Cost was just under $150.

    Neither of us could detect a leak, assuming there was actually dye in the system.
    The dealership says there is no problem with the compressor (thank you God).
    They see no other issues with the A/C system, it was just out of coolant.

    Now my big question is where did the coolant go and why is there no visible evidence of a leak?
    Aside from monitoring its effectiveness and checking for dye leaks, is there anything else I should check?
    Should the sight glass have enough dye exposed to detect inside the system with the UV emitter? What should I see (or not see) in the sight glass?

    As far as I can tell, there is nothing visible through the glass but air. My manual says I should check for foaming/air bubbles but all I see looks like clear air to me. It also says a properly charged system should have visible coolant that may be a little milky, but will clear up quickly when the system is turned off. Again - it just looks like clear air to me - but it is cooling. I'd just stand here and scratch my head, but that would only remove more hair I already don't have.
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. I hope that the dealership also added UV dye to the system? It is possible that dye was not added by the "after market" place.
    2. When the AC compressor turns off, you should see the refrigerant foaming, then become clear. I suggest you have a helper cycle the AC compressor on and off while you watch the sight glass. Also listen to the AC compressor to confirm it is turning on and off. The low pressure line will be freezing cold when the compressor is running while the high pressure line will be hot.
    3. The most likely place where the refrigerant is leaking is the condenser in front of the radiator, or the connecting lines.
     
  3. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    "The most likely place where the refrigerant is leaking is the condenser in front of the radiator"



    that also happend to me and is easy to happen because the protection of the condnenser is low
    it can easly be hit by a small stone while driving down the road. and its easly dammaged
     
  4. lech auto air conditionin

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    yes, same as above condenser is the number #1 leaker on a Prius, Not all dyes are equal. Not all dyes last with effectiveness over time some of the cheaper one get weak and the UV light will no longer find the leak. Some UV light are so weak and cheap they just look good but miss most of the leaks and the TECHs do not know it. Differant manufactures of UV dyes have their UV dyes tuned into different wavelengths of UV light, so that means there are different UV lights and TECHs or shop owner do not know this. When shop A uses dye A but shop A owens a light that was for dye B they will only see a little glow or none at all if direct sunlight is hitting under the hood of the car. Same goes if a car goes to a different shop using a different light. IN THE FIRST PLACE DYE IS NOT THE FIRST THING USED TO FIND A LEAK!!!!!..... Then you are not dealing with a qualified shop at A/C, find a different shop if the one you use is just using dye to find leaks.
    NOW! lets get to statement ( They added just under a half pound of coolant, oil, and UV dye.) this you never do on a R134a car not even to mention a electric compressor with variable displacement compressor and cooling fans, now I know you are dealing with what we call in the auto industry a HACK ! run the other way and never go back. It is shops like that that make me and other shops a lot of money replacing Prius compressor.
    Some times there leaks at any of the fittings all have orings, I have found the brazing at the block with the sight glass to leak before same goes with the oring at the high side service port that can unscrew and replace the oring then there is the evaporator, this is some times the difficult leak to find. To top it all off not all leaks leak all the time they are pressure and TEMP sensitive or vibration from driving the car down the road.
    Oh PS. a shop should not just add oil to a a/c system unless a part was replaced or a big loss from a big leak. That was another indicator you went to a BAD NON A/C shop!!
    Some shops it's all about making the money not about trained qualified TECHs. good luck and if you notice your a/c not cooling well turn it off, the like of your electric compressor depends on a full charge of refrigerant to bring back the oil to it and for the cooling of the cold refrigerant return (y)most shop do not even know this and if some do they do not explain this haw important it is to their customer. It is like guaranteed return work to replace a expensive compressor later MORE $$$ money for the shop, it's like treating the customer as if they were a ATM. :(
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Nice stuff Lech.

    Best was " if not cooling well turn your ac off so not to damage the compressor. So many people on this site dick around with there poor performing ac like they know what there doing letting there compressor run with low charge while they try this and that because there too cheap too take it to an ac place. That ends up costing 3 times more down the road.

    How many miles on car Chopperman?

    And like other poster said make sure the bottom plastic engine cover is in place. If not it exposes the front condenser to fod rock damage. The condenser will not survive with out that cover.

    Also its very important the condenser is kept clean. Take the top black plastic rad cover off by removing the 6 screws.

    Go to Home D and buy the Blue can of pressurized spray foamy ac coil cleaner.
    Hose off the condenser. Spray foamy cleaner on. If really dirty try to gently brush with soft brush to brush it in. Do not bend fins.
    Let it sit.. Then hose it off. Inspect the condenser for any damage. Should be alot cooler after a good cleaning.
     
  6. Chopperman83

    Chopperman83 Junior Member

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    All great responses - thanks for the help.

    To answer the questions - I have a 2006 Prius I bought new; 155,000 miles. Over the last month, the system has leaked enough to stop working again. In the mean time, I cleaned the condenser as suggested and now see very clearly there is a leak at the low side valve - appears to be a bad O ring. No tracer is visible anywhere else and there is a very heavy coating of dye on and around the cap.

    The dealership intends to replace the entire line and not just replace the O ring. Seems odd to me, especially for ~$700.

    I'm beginning to question the technical expertise of this shop.

    We have a refrige shop at the plant where I work and one of the old timers there thinks I should just replace the O ring and let him pull a vacuum and replace the coolant. Since we make R134a, that's a very low cost repair for me if it's really that simple. The refrige shop services our fleet of vehicles (no Prius in the fleet, but some Ford hybrids) and all the HVAC/refrigeration systems up to 40-tons on the site (~5,000 employees so it's a good sized facility). And yes, they use different equipment for different systems...
     
  7. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    so go to a different place for a second price.